no

Pourquoi?

not sure

All these other young kids making 9-12.5 million and you think domi is going to take 5x5.25 as a power forward who's best before age is 30?

Byram instead of Graves ?!

why would you think the difference between Jost and Lehkonen is a 2nd? Lehkonen is the better player in literally every way. Jost has more potential but that's about it. And even then Jost is useless because he instantly becomes our 5th best center

take lehkonen and the 2nds out and you get Domi

Lehkonen > Jost

Ermmm, Domi..a power forward? What?

Domi isn't a power forward. He's more of a pest forward with skill.

He's also coming off a 44 point season, and this isn't a great offseason for players signing contracts.

Lehkonen is a max 30 point bottom 6 forward (or 4th liner on a contender). His value is similar to a younger Nieto. Jost is 2 years younger, likely cheaper, and has much more offensive upside and plays the more valuable position. Maybe a late 2nd or early 3rd would be more appropriate though. But I'd be hesitant to trade down that 1st in this package without a high 2nd coming back one way or another.

As for taking Lehkonen and the 2nds out, that's just ridiculous. Domi isn't worth 1st + Graves + Jost, not even close.

Ive seen a lot Graves trades as of late. I thought he was really good for the Av/s this year. 26 pts, +40 and he showed good chemistry with Makar. WHy deal him at all?

I'd be more than happy to keep him. As you say he's been really good this season, especially defensively, while also chipping in a decent amount of offense without PP time.

That said, with Byram and Timmins on the cusp we can probably afford to move him if it means bringing back a good top 6 forward. Note that I also signed a very experienced 7D to give us a veteran fallback option in case one of the two rookies struggle.

Bergevin was also in Denver with his assistant GM Mellanby at the deadline to scout Graves, so this trade is kinda based on that as well. At the deadline Jost was also showcased, and Lehkonen was healthy scratched. We need a young top 6 forward with term, and Domi is the obvious fit. Needless to say I think a trade like this has a lot of smoke, but it's just a case of finding the right balance of picks.

nah MTL needs offense. Getting rid of Domi is taking steps backwards.

you say max like he isn't 24 and entering his prime, with analytics pointing to him just being an unlucky shooter since his chance generation is quite positive, add the fact that he is very good defensively and you have a better player then Jost

as for Domis value, its a late 1st, a useless player the Habs in Jost and a what if scenario with Graves. If Graves was more established or if Jost played a position of need for MTL then they would hold more value but ultimately its not enough for MTL to consider it

I think the Habs can and will do better if they are trading Domi, Lehkonen and two seconds. One being a pretty lowish 2nd to boot.

The real selling point has to be the 1st and with Colorado being a pretty good team this year, it won't be too enticing to a team like Montreal. At the very least not until they know where that pick will be.

Good trade offer but Im confident a better more precise offer to our needs can be had.

Montreal is a team already full of passing forwards. Their offense would arguably actually improve by making room for a shooter (eg. Caufield) along with finding a LHD partner for Weber or Petry to allow them to contribute more offensively.

Sure, I could see the Lehkonen might get more than 30 points in the right situation, but on a contender like Colorado he likely wouldn't see enough ice time at even-strength to get over 30 points. That said, I totally get what you're saying, as he is good defensively and Jost still hasn't had a breakout season, yet.

I think you're underrating the value of 1st/Graves/Jost there. In a flat cap league in an expansion year 1sts are going to be hard to come by in trades. Domi is also coming off a 44 point season and only had one truly good season before that (his 72 point year), so there are question marks about him.

Also, regarding Graves in particular, there's a very good reason why GM Bergevin and assistant GM Mellanby went to watch the Avs play at the deadline:

HB Analytics
@HBAnalytica
Defenseman player card: Ryan Graves
Graves is a rare talent in that he's an elite defensive defender with a fantastic shot. He's excellent at defending the blue line, but is considerably weak in the neutral zone and on the penalty-kill #GoAvsGo
3:30 PM · Jun 8, 2020·Twitter Web App

Believe me I like Graves, but after 1 season I just don't know what you're getting with him. he played really well and if he had another season or so like that he would be more valuable then Domi in a couple years but at this moment we just don't know if he would come to MTL and be that top 4 LHD they need.

The value as a trade as a whole for Domi is there but its not filling a big enough need for MTL for it to get Domi. Like I said Jost would be stuck behind Danault, Suzuki and Kotkaniemi next year and wouldn't get the playing time to break out if a break out is in him, the 1st is going to be late because the Avs are on course for a long playoff run and of course as discussed Graves is the big question mark.

If you think all that's stopping Graves from being more valuable than Domi then it would be insanity to pay a 1st and Jost on top of Graves. He's not exactly had a rollercoaster season, but been extremely steady every since he got his 26 game call-up in 18/19. That stint convinced Sakic that he was capable of replacing Nemeth, but of course he ended up doing more than that. There's no reason to think that he's going to see a drop-off given how steady his play was.

Realistically Montreal are going to be hard-pressed to find another young top 4 LHD with that size and skill, especially considering that his next contract is likely to be very low for what he actually provides.

And from Colorado's perspective there isn't really going to be a shortage of forwards available to choose from this offseason, either via trade or UFA, in what will very much be a buyers market due to the flat cap.

I don't think MTL will panic for LHD though, they will see how Romanov does and if he doesn't fill top 4 need then they look to move one of Drouin, Domi or Tatar for one. Tatar would be my choice. Even then though, I think they would be looking for a Brodin or someone in that 25-29 range that's established.

Like said, Graves is good and im sure he will be but I don't think they move Domi for him unless they know 100% what they're getting and that's where professional scouting and GMs make those decisions. Right now, Graves would be a nice add but Avs would need to add to him to get Domi, things of course will change after the playoffs and when the draft is but at this moment they add.

Since you think there's so much uncertainty about what player Graves is, but that he has the potential to be close to equal in value 1-2 seasons from now, how about adding a couple of conditional picks on Montreal's side to even out the trade in the event that Graves does continue playing well?

Something like Domi + Lehkonen + 2 conditional 2nd's for Graves + Jost + 1st

The conditions could be based on Graves' offensive production, number of games, and/or tied to Montreal's success making the playoffs, among other things.

That way, if Graves flounders then you still get a solid bottom pair Dman, a 1st, and Jost - without giving up the picks. Whereas if he continues to play like he has in Colorado then Colorado would get compensated for it accordingly with the conditional picks.

There will be no risk on Montreal’s end if they trade Domi. If he’s moved it will absolutely be for an established top 6 winger, Buffalo’s 1st , or an established top 4 young D. Even if Graves has promise it’s still not gonna happen Bergevin will make sure there’s no doubt he’s the winner of the trade if he’s going to move Domi.

Well given Sakic's track record with trades I think it's fairly certain that he's not going to walk away from the trade having lost. An even hockey trade like the Barrie/Kadri trade is probably the most likely.

Bergevin has said he wants to remain competitive while we retool. This trade makes us worse now and doesn't help us in the future.

How does acquiring a 25 year old LHD, 22 year old C, and a 1st not help you in the future?

As for being competitive right now, this trade solidifies your biggest weakness right now (LHD), and creates space for your best young players to get the ice time to break out (i.e. Suzuki, Kotkanieme, Caufield, etc).