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Strengthening - moves with NSH TOR CAR

Créé par: justaBoss
Équipe: 2020-21 Sharks de San Jose
Date de création initiale: 4 juin 2020
Publié: 4 juin 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
While the core still might have something left to bring to the table, should Sharks utilize it to the max?
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
43 750 000 $
1874 125 $
1874 125 $
1874 125 $
1735 000 $
1735 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
22 200 000 $
1700 000 $
1700 000 $
1700 000 $
1700 000 $
Transactions
1.
SJS
  1. Ekholm, Mattias
  2. Turris, Kyle (900 000 $ retained)
NSH
  1. Gambrell, Dylan
  2. Merkley, Ryan
  3. Vlasic, Marc-Édouard (1 400 000 $ retained)
  4. Choix de 2e ronde en 2020 (SJS)
  5. Choix de 1e ronde en 2021 (SJS)
2.
SJS
  1. Kapanen, Kasperi
  2. Choix de 4e ronde en 2020 (TOR)
TOR
  1. Sörensen, Marcus
  2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2020 (TBL)
3.
SJS
  1. McGinn, Brock
  2. Mrázek, Petr (625 000 $ retained)
CAR
  1. Dahlén, Jonathan [Droits de RFA]
  2. Suomela, Antti [Droits de RFA]
  3. Choix de 3e ronde en 2021 (SJS)
  4. Choix de 3e ronde en 2021 (PIT)
Rachats de contrats
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2020
Logo de COL
Logo de TOR
Logo de SJS
Logo de OTT
Logo de PIT
Logo de WSH
2021
Logo de WSH
Logo de SJS
Logo de SJS
Logo de SJS
Logo de SJS
2022
Logo de SJS
Logo de SJS
Logo de SJS
Logo de SJS
Logo de SJS
Logo de SJS
Logo de SJS
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $69 782 458 $0 $277 500 $11 717 542 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Sharks de San Jose
3 000 000 $3 000 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 3
Logo de Sharks de San Jose
8 000 000 $8 000 000 $
C
M-NTC
UFA - 7
Logo de Sharks de San Jose
5 625 000 $5 625 000 $
C
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Sharks de San Jose
7 000 000 $7 000 000 $
AG, AD
M-NTC
UFA - 5
Logo de Predators de Nashville
750 000 $750 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
3 200 000 $3 200 000 $
AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Sharks de San Jose
700 000 $700 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Sharks de San Jose
3 750 000 $3 750 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 4
Logo de Sharks de San Jose
874 125 $874 125 $
C
UFA - 2
700 000 $700 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 1
Logo de Sharks de San Jose
700 000 $700 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Hurricanes de la Caroline
2 100 000 $2 100 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Predators de Nashville
3 750 000 $3 750 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 2
Logo de Sharks de San Jose
10 000 000 $10 000 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo de Hurricanes de la Caroline
2 500 000 $2 500 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Logo de Sharks de San Jose
925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance212 500 $$212K)
DG
UFA - 2
Logo de Sharks de San Jose
5 280 000 $5 280 000 $
DD
M-NTC
UFA - 5
Logo de Sharks de San Jose
2 200 000 $2 200 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Logo de Sharks de San Jose
2 250 000 $2 250 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 4
700 000 $700 000 $
DG
UFA
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Sharks de San Jose
768 333 $768 333 $ (Bonis de performance65 000 $$65K)
AG, AD
RFA - 1
Logo de Sharks de San Jose
735 000 $735 000 $
DG
UFA - 2

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4 juin 2020 à 22 h 27
#1
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Probably a no from the Leafs. Not that the value is bad, it just doesn't make a ton of sense from the standpoint of their needs. Kap would be their most valuable trade piece to upgrade where they want to, and to trade him in a deal where they take cap back ($1.5m I believe) eliminates the trade chip, and while they get another in a 1st, their options decrease barring other moves because they have $1.5m less to work with than if they just traded Kap to directly address the need.
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4 juin 2020 à 22 h 29
#2
Banni
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no one is taking that Vlasic contract. No one.
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4 juin 2020 à 22 h 29
#3
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What in tarnation
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Probably a no from the Leafs. Not that the value is bad, it just doesn't make a ton of sense from the standpoint of their needs. Kap would be their most valuable trade piece to upgrade where they want to, and to trade him in a deal where they take cap back ($1.5m I believe) eliminates the trade chip, and while they get another in a 1st, their options decrease barring other moves because they have $1.5m less to work with than if they just traded Kap to directly address the need.


On the contrary, Sörensen fits the 4LW slot quite well, meaning that TOR doesn't have to consider re-signing Clifford and thus they save the amount re-signing him would cost, as well as the conditional pick. Furthermore, TOR is pretty stacked on both wings. Provided Barabanov plays as effectively as he did in KHL, he can replace Kappy quite well.
4 juin 2020 à 22 h 30
#4
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What in tarnation
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Quoting: pharrow
no one is taking that Vlasic contract. No one.


Probably. Still never hurts to try, and one gotta admit they get pretty nice package in the deal.
4 juin 2020 à 22 h 34
#5
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Quoting: justaBoss
On the contrary, Sörensen fits the 4LW slot quite well, meaning that TOR doesn't have to consider re-signing Clifford and thus they save the amount re-signing him would cost, as well as the conditional pick. Furthermore, TOR is pretty stacked on both wings. Provided Barabanov plays as effectively as he did in KHL, he can replace Kappy quite well.


except that the leafs can just not sign Clifford and fill the spot internally. Kapanen doesnt move unless there is a top 4 defender or a significant over pay coming back. this is neither.
4 juin 2020 à 22 h 34
#6
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Quoting: justaBoss
On the contrary, Sörensen fits the 4LW slot quite well, meaning that TOR doesn't have to consider re-signing Clifford and thus they save the amount re-signing him would cost, as well as the conditional pick. Furthermore, TOR is pretty stacked on both wings. Provided Barabanov plays as effectively as he did in KHL, he can replace Kappy quite well.


They don't have a need of a 4th line LW, though; you said it yourself, they are stacked on both wings. Whether or not they re-sign Clifford, they have guys able to fill that role.
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4 juin 2020 à 22 h 35
#7
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What in tarnation
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
except that the leafs can just not sign Clifford and fill the spot internally. Kapanen doesnt move unless there is a top 4 defender or a significant over pay coming back. this is neither.


Sure that's an option as well. Though I think this amount should suffice for a mid-6 winger pretty easily, but you do you.
4 juin 2020 à 22 h 38
#8
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Quoting: justaBoss
Sure that's an option as well. Though I think this amount should suffice for a mid-6 winger pretty easily, but you do you.


should suffice only works in a vacuum. this trade doesnt make the leafs better so why would they do it? why are they trading their best defender trade chip for an almost 2nd rounder and a guy who isnt an upgrade on the cheaper internal 4th line options?
4 juin 2020 à 22 h 44
#9
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
should suffice only works in a vacuum. this trade doesnt make the leafs better so why would they do it? why are they trading their best defender trade chip for an almost 2nd rounder and a guy who isnt an upgrade on the cheaper internal 4th line options?


Cuz they save money and could be in better position to sign a RHD like DeMelo for example. Also they don't have a first rounder - after this trade they do.
4 juin 2020 à 22 h 47
#10
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Quoting: justaBoss
Cuz they save money and could be in better position to sign a RHD like DeMelo for example. Also they don't have a first rounder - after this trade they do.


except that you dont trade for cap space because you might maybe could potentially if you think about it hard enough sign a free agent who could just as easily sign with 30 other NHL teams. And if you are doing that you dont trade your best trading chip to do it.
the 29th over all pick isnt that valuable or necessary for the Leafs, they are very unlikely to get someone even half as good as Kapanen, and that player wont be in the NHL (if they make it at all) for like 3-4 years most likely.
after this trade they are worse
4 juin 2020 à 23 h 46
#11
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Sharks lose the NSH trade
4 juin 2020 à 23 h 53
#12
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Probably a no from the Leafs. Not that the value is bad, it just doesn't make a ton of sense from the standpoint of their needs. Kap would be their most valuable trade piece to upgrade where they want to, and to trade him in a deal where they take cap back ($1.5m I believe) eliminates the trade chip, and while they get another in a 1st, their options decrease barring other moves because they have $1.5m less to work with than if they just traded Kap to directly address the need.


What do you mean, "take cap back"? You don't think that once they trade Kapanen, they're going to leave the roster slot vacant, do you? Assuming that they replace him with a minimum-level contract, Sorensen costs them only 500 to 800 thousand more over an ELC. I think the Maple Leafs would jump at the chance to get the 28th overall pick in this draft and create $1.7 million in additional cap space. That plus trading Johnsson or Kerfoot allows them to sign a free agent RD for up to $5 million (or trade for one who will get that kind of contract).
5 juin 2020 à 0 h 2
#13
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
What do you mean, "take cap back"? You don't think that once they trade Kapanen, they're going to leave the roster slot vacant, do you? Assuming that they replace him with a minimum-level contract, Sorensen costs them only 500 to 800 thousand more over an ELC. I think the Maple Leafs would jump at the chance to get the 28th overall pick in this draft and create $1.7 million in additional cap space. That plus trading Johnsson or Kerfoot allows them to sign a free agent RD for up to $5 million (or trade for one who will get that kind of contract).


I love an idea that hinges on signing some magical player someone can't even name
5 juin 2020 à 0 h 25
#14
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
What do you mean, "take cap back"? You don't think that once they trade Kapanen, they're going to leave the roster slot vacant, do you? Assuming that they replace him with a minimum-level contract, Sorensen costs them only 500 to 800 thousand more over an ELC. I think the Maple Leafs would jump at the chance to get the 28th overall pick in this draft and create $1.7 million in additional cap space. That plus trading Johnsson or Kerfoot allows them to sign a free agent RD for up to $5 million (or trade for one who will get that kind of contract).


I mean take back cap in Sorenson. It doesn't make much sense for them to trade Kapanen in a deal that brings back a winger (which they have an abundance of) who is going to make more than the players they have that can fill that role. By doing this, they take their best (reasonable) trade chip off the table without addressing their biggest need and decrease the cap space they have to work with to address that need in future. That extra 500 to 800 grand is significant, especially considering the likely cap situation.

If they were to make this trade, barring any other moves, they would have about $3.75m to spend on a Dman, and that's assuming that they trade Johnsson without taking any cap back and run a 22 man roster and Mikheyev + Dermott sign contracts of $1.7m which is optimistic but not unrealistic. It would just make more sense to trade Kapanen to directly fill a need, rather than pick up extra cap along the way.

I'm a bit tired and I'm having trouble articulating my thoughts so I hope that made sense.
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5 juin 2020 à 0 h 33
#15
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Quoting: justaBoss
On the contrary, Sörensen fits the 4LW slot quite well, meaning that TOR doesn't have to consider re-signing Clifford and thus they save the amount re-signing him would cost, as well as the conditional pick. Furthermore, TOR is pretty stacked on both wings. Provided Barabanov plays as effectively as he did in KHL, he can replace Kappy quite well.


yeah thats still a no. selling off kappy for a late 1st and a fringe NHLer makes 0 sense. They have a lot of guys that can play 4th line wing and dont need to trade for SOrensen.

Kappy only gets moved in a deal for a D upgrade. If the sharks wanna make a play at a guy like johnsson sure why not
5 juin 2020 à 0 h 36
#16
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
What do you mean, "take cap back"? You don't think that once they trade Kapanen, they're going to leave the roster slot vacant, do you? Assuming that they replace him with a minimum-level contract, Sorensen costs them only 500 to 800 thousand more over an ELC. I think the Maple Leafs would jump at the chance to get the 28th overall pick in this draft and create $1.7 million in additional cap space. That plus trading Johnsson or Kerfoot allows them to sign a free agent RD for up to $5 million (or trade for one who will get that kind of contract).



nah i think you are dead wrong. the leafs are in win now mode and a late 1st does nothing for 3-4 years (if at all)
Sorensen at 1.5mil is 700-800k more than they can afford for an 8 min/night 4th liner. A team tight against the cap needs to squeeze every penny.

Kappy gets moved for a D upgrade or not at all. A Johnsson trade gives them the room to make a move at a guy like Demelo in UFA
5 juin 2020 à 12 h 18
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
I mean take back cap in Sorenson. It doesn't make much sense for them to trade Kapanen in a deal that brings back a winger (which they have an abundance of) who is going to make more than the players they have that can fill that role. By doing this, they take their best (reasonable) trade chip off the table without addressing their biggest need and decrease the cap space they have to work with to address that need in future. That extra 500 to 800 grand is significant, especially considering the likely cap situation.

If they were to make this trade, barring any other moves, they would have about $3.75m to spend on a Dman, and that's assuming that they trade Johnsson without taking any cap back and run a 22 man roster and Mikheyev + Dermott sign contracts of $1.7m which is optimistic but not unrealistic. It would just make more sense to trade Kapanen to directly fill a need, rather than pick up extra cap along the way.

I'm a bit tired and I'm having trouble articulating my thoughts so I hope that made sense.


It's not a binary proposition. To put it another way, you don't have to address your primary need directly with every move. Sometimes you can employ a plan which still gets you there, indirectly but successfully.

Let's use your math. We trade Kapanen and have $3.75 million to spend on a defenseman. If De Melo would sign for that, or we believe that Radko Gudas is an acceptable add (he would probably sign for that), the immediate problem is solved plus we get a first-round draft pick that could start restocking the pipeline. Toronto can't keep ignoring the future in the hope that the "win now" philosophy will somehow magically result in a Stanley Cup, because as I and I suspect you secretly believe, the team as it is constituted now just isn't good enough.

Three or four years from now, the farm system is going to be worse without the first. I wouldn't be willing to accept that if I were the Maple Leafs GM.
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5 juin 2020 à 12 h 22
#18
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Quoting: Halla
nah i think you are dead wrong. the leafs are in win now mode and a late 1st does nothing for 3-4 years (if at all)
Sorensen at 1.5mil is 700-800k more than they can afford for an 8 min/night 4th liner. A team tight against the cap needs to squeeze every penny.

Kappy gets moved for a D upgrade or not at all. A Johnsson trade gives them the room to make a move at a guy like Demelo in UFA


Toronto has been in a "win now" mode for 3 or 4 years and you can see the result -- the cupboard is bare. Continuing that path is a recipe to ensure that the team is in the same position 3 or 4 years from now. Like it or not, third liners are expendable when the guys ahead of them are named Marner and Nylander, just as they were for Nazem Kadri when the guys ahead of them were named Matthews and Tavares. Continuing to fail -- indeed, t refuse -- to plan for the future is short-sighted.
5 juin 2020 à 13 h 19
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
It's not a binary proposition. To put it another way, you don't have to address your primary need directly with every move. Sometimes you can employ a plan which still gets you there, indirectly but successfully.


I would first like to say that I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. I have advocated for this argument many times on here when I see people turning down overpayments because a specific need is not met. Most often when the team is not in a position to win.

Quoting: OldNYIfan
Let's use your math. We trade Kapanen and have $3.75 million to spend on a defenseman. If De Melo would sign for that, or we believe that Radko Gudas is an acceptable add (he would probably sign for that), the immediate problem is solved plus we get a first-round draft pick that could start restocking the pipeline. Toronto can't keep ignoring the future in the hope that the "win now" philosophy will somehow magically result in a Stanley Cup, because as I and I suspect you secretly believe, the team as it is constituted now just isn't good enough.


Let's not forget though, that my math was an optimistic estimate. Who's to say they can trade Johnsson without taking back any cap? Who's to say that Mikheyev and Dermott sign for $1.7m? I don't think either of those things are unrealistic, but there are a lot of variables. Now we come to the point of UFA's. You have limited options and it is entirely out of your control whether or not a player will sign with you. You can make your offer to them but other teams may beat it or they might simply not want to play in Toronto. So if you lose out, now you've traded your best piece for a downgrade and a pick that won't help you until 2-4 years down the road, if at all. You've worsened your team. Why take that risk when you can just trade said player directly for what you are looking for? If they weren't actively trying to win, that may be a route worth taking, but given their position, the risk outweighs the reward.

I would very much challenge the notion that Toronto has been 'ignoring the future'. There is also no magic to it, just logic. When you enter into a window to win a Stanley Cup, you should do what you can to increase your odds at winning and keep the window open. Is there any guarantee that it happens for you? No, but doing anything else would be counterproductive. Your suspicion is wrong - I do believe that the foundation is there for this team to win a cup. There are spots where they can improve, of course, and sometimes the best way to do that is to put the future on the back burner. If you aren't willing to make sacrifices to improve your team, how can you ever expect to win?

I believe it was actually you who said to me in a previous conversation that something someone said that stuck with you was along the lines of "I've lost a lot of battles I expected to win, but I've never won a battle I expected to lose". The Leafs management lowering their chance to win with this team for the benefit of a 1st that may never make an impact on the team is as good as waving a white flag. It sends a bad message to the players, as well.

Quoting: OldNYIfan
Three or four years from now, the farm system is going to be worse without the first. I wouldn't be willing to accept that if I were the Maple Leafs GM.


I'd be fine with a slightly worse farm system, knowing that they did their best to capitalize on a legitimate chance to win.
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5 juin 2020 à 13 h 29
#20
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
I would first like to say that I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. I have advocated for this argument many times on here when I see people turning down overpayments because a specific need is not met. Most often when the team is not in a position to win.

Let's not forget though, that my math was an optimistic estimate. Who's to say they can trade Johnsson without taking back any cap? Who's to say that Mikheyev and Dermott sign for $1.7m? I don't think either of those things are unrealistic, but there are a lot of variables. Now we come to the point of UFA's. You have limited options and it is entirely out of your control whether or not a player will sign with you. You can make your offer to them but other teams may beat it or they might simply not want to play in Toronto. So if you lose out, now you've traded your best piece for a downgrade and a pick that won't help you until 2-4 years down the road, if at all. You've worsened your team. Why take that risk when you can just trade said player directly for what you are looking for? If they weren't actively trying to win, that may be a route worth taking, but given their position, the risk outweighs the reward.

I would very much challenge the notion that Toronto has been 'ignoring the future'. There is also no magic to it, just logic. When you enter into a window to win a Stanley Cup, you should do what you can to increase your odds at winning and keep the window open. Is there any guarantee that it happens for you? No, but doing anything else would be counterproductive. Your suspicion is wrong - I do believe that the foundation is there for this team to win a cup. There are spots where they can improve, of course, and sometimes the best way to do that is to put the future on the back burner. If you aren't willing to make sacrifices to improve your team, how can you ever expect to win?

I believe it was actually you who said to me in a previous conversation that something someone said that stuck with you was along the lines of "I've lost a lot of battles I expected to win, but I've never won a battle I expected to lose". The Leafs management lowering their chance to win with this team for the benefit of a 1st that may never make an impact on the team is as good as waving a white flag. It sends a bad message to the players, as well.

I'd be fine with a slightly worse farm system, knowing that they did their best to capitalize on a legitimate chance to win.


Thank you for the erudite and very well-expressed counter-argument. Your response is a credit to your position.

On a personal note, I am both impressed and touched that you remember not just the wording but the source of the quote from Edgar Kaplan, one of America's greatest contract bridge players, two of whose favorite teammates were Canadian internationalists Sammi Kehela and Eric Murray of Toronto.
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