Forums/Armchair-GM

Eichel over Mathews change my mind

Créé par: ConnorMcHellebucyk
Date de création initiale: mai 28, 2020
Publié: May 28 at 2:57 pm
Équipe: 2019-20 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Rachats de contrats
  • Mikhail Grabovski: 0 $
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Phil Kessel: 1 200 000 $ (15%)
  • Robin Lehner: 1 100 000 $ (22%)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2020
TOR
TOR
VGK
VGK
TOR
CAR
COL
SJS
STL
WPG
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2781 500 000 $96 271 866 $0 $0 $-14 771 866 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
TOR
Johnsson, Andreas
3 400 000 $
AG
UFA - 4
TOR
Matthews, Auston
11 634 000 $
C
UFA - 5
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
10 893 000 $
AD
UFA - 6
TOR
Hyman, Zach
2 250 000 $
AG
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Tavares, John
11 000 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 6
TOR
Nylander, William
6 962 366 $
AD, AG
UFA - 5
TOR
Clifford, Kyle
800 000 $
AG
UFA - 1
TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
3 500 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 4
TOR
Horton, Nathan
5 300 000 $
AD
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
925 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
TOR
Spezza, Jason
700 000 $
C, AD
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Clarkson, David
5 250 000 $
AD
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Engvall, Pierre
925 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
TOR
Gauthier, Frédérik
675 000 $
C
RFA - 1
TOR
Kapanen, Kasperi
3 200 000 $
AD
RFA - 3
TOR
Malgin, Denis
750 000 $
AD, C
RFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
5 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 3
TOR
Ceci, Cody
4 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
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Andersen, Frederik
5 000 000 $
G
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
4 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
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Barrie, Tyson
2 750 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
TOR
Campbell, Jack
675 000 $
G
UFA - 1
TOR
Sandin, Rasmus
894 167 $
DG
RFA - 3
TOR
Holl, Justin
675 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
TOR
Dermott, Travis
863 333 $
DG
RFA - 1
TOR
Rosén, Calle
750 000 $
DG
UFA - 2
TOR
Marincin, Martin
700 000 $
DG
UFA - 1

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28 mai à 14 h 58
#1
Stop Trolling Marner
Rejoint: fév 2020
Messages: 754
Mentions "j'aime": 232
I’m not fighting. AM34 over Eichel but I’m biased. You’ll never win this argument no matter how hard you try
28 mai à 14 h 58
#2
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 2,286
Mentions "j'aime": 628
he's literally better at everything except Eichel is faster.

there. Done.
28 mai à 14 h 59
#3
The Enlightened One
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 5,569
Mentions "j'aime": 2,540
Well Matthews out everythings Eichel in everything. Regular stats, eye test (subjective ofc), isolated stats. It really isn't an argument at this point unless you are actively ignoring evidence or simply trolling.
28 mai à 15 h 12
#4
Start playoffs
Rejoint: avr 2020
Messages: 1,488
Mentions "j'aime": 411
Quoting: JaredOfLondon
he's literally better at everything except Eichel is faster.

there. Done.


Yup. There is pretty much no way Eichel is better.
28 mai à 15 h 16
#5
Rejoint: mar 2018
Messages: 5,747
Mentions "j'aime": 1,957
Matthews-
(Career)- 282 GP, 285 points, 153 goals, 266 oiGF, 217 oiGA
(This Season)- 70 GP, 80 points, 47 goals, 54.2 corsi%, 78 oiGF(career high), 52 oiGA(career low)

Eichel-
(Career)- 354 GP, 337 points, 136 goals, 297 oiGF, 328 oiGA
(This Season)- 68 GP, 78 points, 36 goals, 51.5 corsi%, 76 oiGF(career high), 62 oiGA

Based on stats and facts I conclude that Matthews is better then Eichel.
firezfurx a aimé ceci.
28 mai à 15 h 17
#6
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 984
Mentions "j'aime": 419
Quoting: Saskleaf
Yup. There is pretty much no way Eichel is better.

Since 16-17: Eichel, 273 GP, 113 goals, 168 assists 281 points, 1.02 PPG.
Matthews: 282 games played, 158 goals, 127 assist, 285 points. 1.01 ppg. One plays on one of the best offensive teams, one plays on the worst team in hockey.
ConnorMcHellebucyk a aimé ceci.
28 mai à 15 h 19
#7
Start playoffs
Rejoint: avr 2020
Messages: 1,488
Mentions "j'aime": 411
Quoting: Sabres923
Since 16-17: Eichel, 273 GP, 113 goals, 168 assists 281 points, 1.02 PPG.
Matthews: 282 games played, 158 goals, 127 assist, 285 points. 1.01 ppg. One plays on one of the best offensive teams, one plays on the worst team in hockey.


Ok, so they are close. But Matthews is still better
28 mai à 15 h 20
#8
Start playoffs
Rejoint: avr 2020
Messages: 1,488
Mentions "j'aime": 411
Quoting: Sabres923
Since 16-17: Eichel, 273 GP, 113 goals, 168 assists 281 points, 1.02 PPG.
Matthews: 282 games played, 158 goals, 127 assist, 285 points. 1.01 ppg. One plays on one of the best offensive teams, one plays on the worst team in hockey.


Who cares about the team? But on a side note, Glad you agree Toronto is an elite team.
28 mai à 15 h 22
#9
Rejoint: avr 2020
Messages: 251
Mentions "j'aime": 63
Buffalo also only has had Eichel's line that other teams had to worry about, whereas teams had multiple lines to worry about in Toronto.
Sabres923 a aimé ceci.
28 mai à 15 h 22
#10
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 984
Mentions "j'aime": 419
Quoting: Saskleaf
Ok, so they are close. But Matthews is still better


Quoting: Saskleaf
Ok, so they are close. But Matthews is still better


Eichel has a higher ppg while getting the tougher assignments. Outside of Eichel, Reinhart And Olofsson the Sabres have no scoring threats. While in Toronto you still have to worry about Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Kapanen, Johnsson.
28 mai à 15 h 26
#11
Start playoffs
Rejoint: avr 2020
Messages: 1,488
Mentions "j'aime": 411
Quoting: Sabres923
Eichel has a higher ppg while getting the tougher assignments. Outside of Eichel, Reinhart And Olofsson the Sabres have no scoring threats. While in Toronto you still have to worry about Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Kapanen, Johnsson.


Ya, but Matthews is a goal scorer, not an assister. Also, wouldn't use ppg as a good stat if they are 0.01 away from each other.
28 mai à 15 h 28
#12
get off my lawn...
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 12,572
Mentions "j'aime": 6,388
Quoting: Sabres923
Eichel has a higher ppg while getting the tougher assignments. Outside of Eichel, Reinhart And Olofsson the Sabres have no scoring threats. While in Toronto you still have to worry about Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Kapanen, Johnsson.


Imagine thinking that matthews doesn’t draw the toughest defensive assignments. What planet have you been on?
28 mai à 15 h 29
#13
Rejoint: jan 2020
Messages: 2,056
Mentions "j'aime": 835
Quoting: Sabres923
Since 16-17: Eichel, 273 GP, 113 goals, 168 assists 281 points, 1.02 PPG.
Matthews: 282 games played, 158 goals, 127 assist, 285 points. 1.01 ppg. One plays on one of the best offensive teams, one plays on the worst team in hockey.


Don't you think it tells you something that you have to eliminate Eichel's rookie season just to make it an argument?
28 mai à 15 h 31
#14
get off my lawn...
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 12,572
Mentions "j'aime": 6,388
Quoting: Saskleaf
Ya, but Matthews is a goal scorer, not an assister. Also, wouldn't use ppg as a good stat if they are 0.01 away from each other.


Matthews is both...

https://youtu.be/N__YA3G0Hfg
MadLin27 a aimé ceci.
28 mai à 15 h 31
#15
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 984
Mentions "j'aime": 419
Quoting: Jamiepo
Imagine thinking that matthews doesn’t draw the toughest defensive assignments. What planet have you been on?

He does, but he played with Marner a lot this year.. who is a top 20 player, that you can’t forget about. While Eichel who gets doubled and triple teamed when he got the puck, you would much rather take your chances with a wide open Sam Reinhart than Jack Eichel.
28 mai à 15 h 33
#16
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 984
Mentions "j'aime": 419
Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Don't you think it tells you something that you have to eliminate Eichel's rookie season just to make it an argument?


Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Don't you think it tells you something that you have to eliminate Eichel's rookie season just to make it an argument?

His 56 rookie year playing with Cal O’Reilly, Marcus Folgnio and Matt Moulson? I did it to be fair because Matthews entered the league in 2016.
28 mai à 15 h 35
#17
No regretzkys
Rejoint: aoû 2019
Messages: 412
Mentions "j'aime": 176
Quoting: Adambuffalo
Buffalo also only has had Eichel's line that other teams had to worry about, whereas teams had multiple lines to worry about in Toronto.


Well to counter that, Eichel also plays more minutes than Matthews. And Matthews P/60 and G/60 is significantly better than Eichel.
Matthews:
2.52 P/60 1.53 G/60

Eichel:
2.04 P/60 0.86 G/60

I don't even enjoy having this debate. Eichel is a fantastic player. I am a Leafs fan so I am biased, but I honestly do think Matthews has a slight edge at this point in their careers.
I could certainly see Eichel becoming better than Matthews some day, but right now, Matthews has the edge.
28 mai à 15 h 44
#18
Rejoint: jan 2020
Messages: 2,056
Mentions "j'aime": 835
Quoting: Sabres923
His 56 rookie year playing with Cal O’Reilly, Marcus Folgnio and Matt Moulson? I did it to be fair because Matthews entered the league in 2016.


But Matthews' rookie year alongside fellow rookies Hyman and Brown/Nylander is a-okay to be in a comparison? If you're shooting for fairness, you missed the mark. O'rielly, Foligno, and Moulson weren't Eichel's most common 5v5 linemates in 15-16 btw.
28 mai à 16 h 10
#19
Dubas is a genius
Rejoint: avr 2020
Messages: 2,364
Mentions "j'aime": 580
Quoting: Sabres923
Since 16-17: Eichel, 273 GP, 113 goals, 168 assists 281 points, 1.02 PPG.
Matthews: 282 games played, 158 goals, 127 assist, 285 points. 1.01 ppg. One plays on one of the best offensive teams, one plays on the worst team in hockey.


Eichel is a year older though. You really **** it up when you cut out Eichel's first few years.
28 mai à 16 h 27
#20
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 984
Mentions "j'aime": 419
Quoting: firezfurx
Eichel is a year older though. You really **** it up when you cut out Eichel's first few years.

Matthews missed the 2015 draft cut off by a couple days.
28 mai à 20 h 55
#21
Start playoffs
Rejoint: avr 2020
Messages: 1,488
Mentions "j'aime": 411
Quoting: Jamiepo
Matthews is both...

https://youtu.be/N__YA3G0Hfg


Well ya he can assist, but that is not his strength. He’s a champion goal scorer.
28 mai à 21 h 51
#22
get off my lawn...
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 12,572
Mentions "j'aime": 6,388
Quoting: Saskleaf
Well ya he can assist, but that is not his strength. He’s a champion goal scorer.


He is great at both. He has almost as many assists as goals. Most of them from pretty feeds. He has developed a very well rounded game in both zones and is great at the dot.

No disparage meant to eichel, that guy throws the sabres on his back every night. I love the guy.
28 mai à 22 h 36
#23
Start playoffs
Rejoint: avr 2020
Messages: 1,488
Mentions "j'aime": 411
Quoting: Jamiepo
He is great at both. He has almost as many assists as goals. Most of them from pretty feeds. He has developed a very well rounded game in both zones and is great at the dot.

No disparage meant to eichel, that guy throws the sabres on his back every night. I love the guy.


Yes, but there are very few people that have more goals then assists. Usually, there are 2 assists for every goal.
29 mai à 12 h 43
#24
Rejoint: avr 2020
Messages: 251
Mentions "j'aime": 63
Quoting: MadLin27
Well to counter that, Eichel also plays more minutes than Matthews. And Matthews P/60 and G/60 is significantly better than Eichel.
Matthews:
2.52 P/60 1.53 G/60

Eichel:
2.04 P/60 0.86 G/60


Never can prove/disprove it, but I would almost guarantee that if Eichel was playing for Toronto all along his point totals would go up a lot and Matthews would take a huge hit if he'd been playing in Buffalo the whole time.
29 mai à 12 h 53
#25
No regretzkys
Rejoint: aoû 2019
Messages: 412
Mentions "j'aime": 176
Quoting: Adambuffalo
Never can prove/disprove it, but I would almost guarantee that if Eichel was playing for Toronto all along his point totals would go up a lot and Matthews would take a huge hit if he'd been playing in Buffalo the whole time.


Matthews was producing elite numbers when he was 19 and Hyman and Brown (basically both rookies) were his linemates...
I believe you're right that Eichel would produce more on the Leafs, but Matthews is literally the catalyst that makes the Leafs as good as they are.
Matthews isn't inflated by anything Marner or Nylander does for him. He produced playing with Hyman and Brown when all of them were (basically) rookies.
Matthews led the league to start 2018/19 playing with Kapanen.

My point is that Matthews isn't AT ALL a product of playing with good linemates, he creates the offense.. Period.
Jamiepo a aimé ceci.
 
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