CDH vs Maatta

Forums/Armchair-GM

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Créé par: ForsbergForVezina

Équipe: 2020-21 Blackhawks de Chicago

Date de création initiale: 26 mai 2020

Publié: 26 mai 2020

Mode - plafond salarial: Basique

Description

Yeah yeah, this should be in forums whatever

In a perfect world, one of them goes this offseason, not due to poor play, but so prospects (Mitchell, Carlsson, Beaudin) won’t be blocked when they’re ready. Slater Koekkoek could be added to this group, but I can’t see him leaving, as he’s nearly as good as them and will cost half as much to keep, which is why I always include him in my Hawks ACGMs (and you should too).

You could make an argument for moving (or keeping, rather) either of them. According to Evolving Wild’s Goals Above Replacement model, Maatta was Chicago’s most valuable defenseman this season. The points aren’t there, but the reduced role and competent partners have considerably helped his game. These factors, in my mind, make him more valuable than Calvin De Haan, who was injured for over half the season, is older and slightly more expensive. However, if healthy, I think De Haan can be just as effective as Maatta or any other 2nd pairing defensive-minded defenseman.

I like both of them and would even go as far to say I want to keep both of them. But the reality is is that there are cheaper, potentially better options who could be ready next season.

If one has to go, who would you move, why and what is Chicago getting back?

Signatures de joueurs autonomes

LISTE DE RÉSERVE		ANS	CAP HIT
Mitchell, Ian		3	916 667 $

RFA	ANS	CAP HIT
Caggiula, Drake	1	1 650 000 $
Koekkoek, Slater	3	2 000 000 $
Kubalik, Dominik	2	4 000 000 $
Strome, Dylan	2	3 750 000 $

UFA		ANS	CAP HIT
Crawford, Corey		2	4 000 000 $

Transactions

CHI

Choix de 2e ronde en 2021 (BUF)

BUF

Määttä, Olli

Rachats de contrats

Zack Smith: 1 083 333 $

Repêchage	1e ronde	2e ronde	3e ronde	4e ronde	5e ronde	6e ronde	7e ronde
2020
2021
2022

FORMATION

VUE À LONG TERME

INTÉGRÉ

TEXTE INTÉGRÉ

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
24	81 500 000 $	72 642 039 $	1 090 244 $	4 282 500 $	8 857 961 $

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
Kubalik, Dominik 4 000 000 $4 000 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 2	Toews, Jonathan 10 500 000 $10 500 000 $ C NMC UFA - 3	Saad, Brandon 5 000 000 $5 000 000 $ AG, AD M-NTC UFA - 1
Nylander, Alexander 863 333 $863 333 $ (850 000 $$850K) AD, AG RFA - 1	Dach, Kirby 925 000 $925 000 $ (2 500 000 $$2M) C, AD RFA - 2	Kane, Patrick 2 625 000 $2 625 000 $ AD NMC UFA - 3
DeBrincat, Alex 6 400 000 $6 400 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 3	Strome, Dylan 3 750 000 $3 750 000 $ C UFA - 2	Caggiula, Drake 1 650 000 $1 650 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 1
	Kämpf, David 1 000 000 $1 000 000 $ C UFA - 1	Carpenter, Ryan 1 000 000 $1 000 000 $ AD, C UFA - 2
Highmore, Matthew 725 000 $725 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 2

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Keith, Duncan 5 538 462 $5 538 462 $ DG NMC UFA - 3	Boqvist, Adam 894 167 $894 167 $ (850 000 $$850K) DD RFA - 2	Crawford, Corey 4 000 000 $4 000 000 $ G UFA - 2
De Haan, Calvin 4 550 000 $4 550 000 $ DG/DD UFA - 2	Mitchell, Ian 916 667 $916 667 $ DD RFA - 3	Delia, Collin 1 000 000 $1 000 000 $ G UFA - 2
Koekkoek, Slater 2 000 000 $2 000 000 $ DG/DD UFA - 1	Murphy, Connor 3 850 000 $3 850 000 $ DD UFA - 2
Carlsson, Lucas 792 500 $792 500 $ (82 500 $$82K) DG RFA - 1
Beaudin, Nicolas 863 333 $863 333 $ DG UFA - 3

Laissés de côté	Liste des blessés (IR)	Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Seabrook, Brent 6 875 000 $6 875 000 $ DD NMC UFA - 4		Shaw, Andrew 3 900 000 $3 900 000 $ C, AD UFA - 2
Sikura, Dylan 750 000 $750 000 $ AG, AD, C UFA - 1

26 mai 2020 à 22 h 18

KakkoForMauriceRichardAward

Brace for the Storm

Rejoint: mai 2017

Messages: 12,840

Mentions "j'aime": 6,647

Maatta has 2 years left right?

If so, if you retained a certain amount so that he would have a 3 mil cap hit with us, I'd move Howden and 2021 2nd for Maatta and a 2021 4th rounder

26 mai 2020 à 22 h 19

Ledge_And_Dairy

Rejoint: juin 2019

Messages: 38,217

Mentions "j'aime": 19,489

CDH is definitely the better player, problem is he gets injured. I would take the risk and keep him though, you might get more value from Maata if he performs well this tournament

mhockey91, TheGreatMistake, ForsbergForVezina and 1 other person a aimé ceci.

26 mai 2020 à 22 h 27

Roviet_Sussia

Rejoint: avr. 2019

Messages: 509

Mentions "j'aime": 118

I'd think Maatta is the most likely to get moved, unless a team specifically wants CDH. Maatta is cheaper (though not by much) and has a much friendlier buyout clause that will interest teams the most.

I'd also be inclined to keep CDH despite having a lower GAR than Maatta, mainly because
1.) He's better at relieving pressure in both zones (cc @ShutdownLine)
2.) CDH plays more aggressively than Maatta, which is something CHI needs more of on the backend

ForsbergForVezina, TheGreatMistake et ChiHawk a aimé ceci.

26 mai 2020 à 22 h 27

ForsbergForVezina

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Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward

Maatta has 2 years left right?

If so, if you retained a certain amount so that he would have a 3 mil cap hit with us, I'd move Howden and 2021 2nd for Maatta and a 2021 4th rounder

$3 million is definitely right around fair market value for Maatta but $1 million is a lot to retain for two seasons. Then again, I don’t hate that deal. I think I’d accept

KakkoForMauriceRichardAward a aimé ceci.

26 mai 2020 à 22 h 32

KakkoForMauriceRichardAward

Brace for the Storm

Rejoint: mai 2017

Messages: 12,840

Mentions "j'aime": 6,647

Quoting: ForsbergForVezina

$3 million is definitely right around fair market value for Maatta but $1 million is a lot to retain for two seasons. Then again, I don’t hate that deal. I think I’d accept

Deal

ForsbergForVezina a aimé ceci.

26 mai 2020 à 22 h 33

ForsbergForVezina

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Quoting: Roviet_Sussia

I’d agree with the aggressiveness/physicality for sure and relieving pressure is good too. That would probably be my inclination too, but the risk for injury with CDH is definitely something that concerns me. But it’s going to concern any other potential trade partner too. I think De Haan stays

Roviet_Sussia a aimé ceci.

26 mai 2020 à 22 h 34

Wadejos123

Rejoint: mai 2017

Messages: 8,256

Mentions "j'aime": 4,896

Ideally we draft Lundell, then trade Strome for Brodin and keep Maata for the bottom pair, but since that won't happen ill say I would rather keep Dehaan and move Maata. Probably could get a 3rd back.

KakkoForMauriceRichardAward, ForsbergForVezina et ChiHawk a aimé ceci.

26 mai 2020 à 23 h 14

ForsbergForVezina

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Quoting: Wadejos123

Not a bad plan honestly. I don’t love Lundell compared to a number of other prospects in the draft but he really could be just what they need. And Brodin is one of the most underrated defensemen in the league, if somehow they could grab him, that would be a huge win

ChiHawk a aimé ceci.

27 mai 2020 à 0 h 48

ChiHawk

Rejoint: avr. 2017

Messages: 18,979

Mentions "j'aime": 9,276

"However, if healthy, I think De Haan can be just as effective as Maatta or any other 2nd pairing defensive-minded defenseman."

You lost me with that statement. When healthy, De Haan is another level better then Maatta and there should be no debate. De Haan is one of the better defensive 2nd line players in the league. Maatta is not a 2nd line player on most teams, but a decent 3rd liner player on around 14 teams in the league. Maatta simply is not nearly as good as de haan when healthy.

Everything else you said I agree with.

27 mai 2020 à 1 h 28

#10

ForsbergForVezina

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Quoting: ChiHawk

I don’t know if I agree with that. Maatta has a really good season this year, contributed a little bit everywhere and that added up for him. There are things De Haan does better than Maatta for sure. Without a doubt, he’s more physical, which is advantageous in a number of ways. If that’s what you mean by “another level better,” then sure, De Haan is better than Maatta. But when I look at Maatta’s overall impact, whether it’s GAR, expected goals, Corsi, whatever, he’s edging De Haan out and that’s with well over half of his faceoffs being taken outside the offensive zone. In fairness, De Haan probably got put up against better competition (I recall him playing with Keith before he got hurt), which shows a higher level of trust from the coaching stuff in him and perhaps a better reputation, but his poorer results, combined with Maatta’s more positive ones says to me that that gap between the two is shrinking significantly.

Maybe this is just my way of saying De Haan is overrated (which I think is unfair, I still think he’s very good) but I just think that the two are closer in effectiveness than it perhaps perceived

27 mai 2020 à 22 h 12

#11

SlickWilly

Rejoint: nov. 2017

Messages: 3,222

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I think De Haan gets moved over Maatta for a few reasons :
1. Maatta has a cheaper buyout so we dont have to scramble to find anyone to dump him on if we are at the cap next offseason
2. In terms of what he can bring back, I think we could probably get a 2nd or a middle prospect for De Haan, for Maatta I would expect a 3rd rounder or less because of the stigma around him being slow as molasses, but I personally think he is probably of similar value
3. Nobody knows how long that shoulder is going to hold up for until it breaks again and how long he would be out for after the next injury, so if we could get some value back before that happens, its a win to me, especially if we dont plan on contending next season

Overall, I think GAR can be slightly misleading and that De Haan is definitely better than Maatta, but I do not think the difference is as wide as people think. In an ideal world, we are contending next season and I keep both of them, but it is more likely than not that we arent, so I think I would sell De Haan to the highest bidder

ForsbergForVezina a aimé ceci.

27 mai 2020 à 23 h 16

#12

ForsbergForVezina

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Quoting: SlickWilly

I appreciate the other perspective and I think that thats a totally valid argument. Like I said, if both are healthy and playing in their appropriate roles, I don't think you can go wrong with keeping either

SlickWilly a aimé ceci.

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Forums/Armchair-GM

CDH vs Maatta

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CHI

BUF

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