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OTT Fans Life Without Toews and Kane

Créé par: HatterTParty
Équipe: 2020-21 Blackhawks de Chicago
Date de création initiale: 21 mai 2020
Publié: 21 mai 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Ottawa fans, really want to know your own valuations of these two guys. I like em a lot personally. My fellow hawks fans will hate the trade, but I want to know your opinions.

Meant to look like a rebuild obviously. The team would suffer for a year or two (much like the present), but between the youth and the three picks in a deep draft, it would accelerate a rebuild. Essentially, this entails actually committing to a plan. Strome would be traded in the year that follows.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
LISTE DE RÉSERVEANSCAP HIT
3925 000 $
RFAANSCAP HIT
21 750 000 $
33 000 000 $
23 500 000 $
21 500 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
23 000 000 $
Transactions
1.
CHI
ANA
  1. Määttä, Olli
  2. Smith, Zack
Détails additionnels:
Whoever will take them
2.
CHI
  1. Krebs, Peyton
  2. Stephenson, Chandler [Droits de RFA]
  3. Choix de 1e ronde en 2021 (VGK)
VGK
  1. Toews, Jonathan (3 000 000 $ retained)
3.
CHI
  1. Kravtsov, Vitali
  2. Lundqvist, Henrik
  3. Choix de 1e ronde en 2020 (NYR)
  4. Choix de 1e ronde en 2020 (CAR)
4.
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2020
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2021
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2022
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2381 500 000 $54 045 372 $1 090 244 $2 785 000 $27 454 628 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
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6 400 000 $6 400 000 $
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3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
C
UFA - 2
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5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
AG, AD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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3 000 000 $3 000 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
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736 666 $736 666 $ (Bonis de performance20 000 $$20K)
AD, AG
UFA - 1
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925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance850 000 $$850K)
AG, AD
RFA - 2
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747 500 $747 500 $ (Bonis de performance132 500 $$132K)
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RFA - 2
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894 167 $894 167 $
C, AG
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863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance850 000 $$850K)
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RFA - 1
1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 4
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1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
C
UFA - 1
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1 750 000 $1 750 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
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1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 2
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
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5 538 462 $5 538 462 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 3
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894 167 $894 167 $ (Bonis de performance850 000 $$850K)
DD
RFA - 2
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3 000 000 $3 000 000 $
G
UFA - 2
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4 550 000 $4 550 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 2
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925 000 $925 000 $
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863 333 $863 333 $
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UFA - 3
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3 850 000 $3 850 000 $
DD
UFA - 2
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1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
G
UFA - 1
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792 500 $792 500 $ (Bonis de performance82 500 $$82K)
DG
RFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
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725 000 $725 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Blackhawks de Chicago
6 875 000 $6 875 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo de Blackhawks de Chicago
3 900 000 $3 900 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 2

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21 mai 2020 à 17 h 50
#1
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Trading Dach is a terrible idea. guy still has great potential.
21 mai 2020 à 17 h 51
#2
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Quoting: Teemu_salami
Trading Dach is a terrible idea. guy still has great potential.


As does batherson and formenton.
21 mai 2020 à 17 h 51
#3
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Quoting: Teemu_salami
Trading Dach is a terrible idea. guy still has great potential.


Batherson also isn't natural C. Really really bad idea.
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21 mai 2020 à 17 h 54
#4
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Quoting: firezfurx
Batherson also isn't natural C. Really really bad idea.


Neither is Dach really, in so far that he can’t take faceoffs. Both are listed as centers but may be better off at wing. Point is, versatility.
21 mai 2020 à 17 h 57
#5
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I think Batherson +Formenton is better Value for Ottawa than Just Dach, but it's interesting.

Also I know he's listed as a C/RW, but Batherson hasn't played a lick of centre since at the very least before his draft year.
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21 mai 2020 à 17 h 59
#6
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Neither is Dach really, in so far that he can’t take faceoffs. Both are listed as centers but may be better off at wing. Point is, versatility.


What???
Dach is the ideal modern power center. He can throw his weight around and plays great at C, and even if he was wing he is much, much, better then Formenton/Drake. He very well might be the best player of the 2020 draft given how good his 2-way game was this year.
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21 mai 2020 à 18 h 2
#7
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Quoting: Claesson4Norris
I think Batherson +Formenton is better Value for Ottawa than Just Dach, but it's interesting.

Also I know he's listed as a C/RW, but Batherson hasn't played a lick of centre since at the very least before his draft year.


Okay, I like that. Batherson, and maybe I’m stretching a little here, seems like the versatile player that can go between Wing and center when needed. Am I off base there?

Also, just a reminder, Dach, for all his potential, still can’t take faceoffs. I know it’s an issue that seems a little unfair to pick on a player for, but it is an issue when possession is at stake. Dach at wing is just fine.
21 mai 2020 à 18 h 6
#8
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Quoting: firezfurx
What???
Dach is the ideal modern power center. He can throw his weight around and plays great at C, and even if he was wing he is much, much, better then Formenton/Drake. He very well might be the best player of the 2020 draft given how good his 2-way game was this year.


Okay, let start by zeroing in on a phrase you used. You said “best player of the 2020 draft.” Let me ask, you do mean as of this moment, right?

Also, I’m not questioning his two way game, it’s good. It’d be nice if he ever learns to win faceoffs, and learns how to shoot a puck. But I digress. As for being better on the wing than batherson/formenton, I mean, I guess. I’m not gonna diss another teams’ prospects especially when I like em.
21 mai 2020 à 18 h 13
#9
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Okay, let start by zeroing in on a phrase you used. You said “best player of the 2020 draft.” Let me ask, you do mean as of this moment, right?

Also, I’m not questioning his two way game, it’s good. It’d be nice if he ever learns to win faceoffs, and learns how to shoot a puck. But I digress. As for being better on the wing than batherson/formenton, I mean, I guess. I’m not gonna diss another teams’ prospects especially when I like em.


Jack hughes FO% was almost as bad as Dach's. It happens to rookies. If he sucks at faceoffs in 3 years its a problem. Until then its not really a pressing issue
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21 mai 2020 à 18 h 18
#10
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Batherson has 1st line potential. I think he has 60-65pts high end potential. Formenton probably more of a 2nd line winger, better version of Grabner/Hagelin but a bit less valuable than Kreider
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21 mai 2020 à 18 h 20
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Okay, I like that. Batherson, and maybe I’m stretching a little here, seems like the versatile player that can go between Wing and center when needed. Am I off base there?

Also, just a reminder, Dach, for all his potential, still can’t take faceoffs. I know it’s an issue that seems a little unfair to pick on a player for, but it is an issue when possession is at stake. Dach at wing is just fine.


Batherson is a very good player. He's got a very well rounded skillset as a passer and a shooter, he's a physical player and engaged in all three zones. He's not a Centre. I've watched a lot of him not just at the NHL level, but the AHL, and I'm not sure if he's ever even taken a faceoff.

Of all the possible reasons to give up on a young player, faceoff ability is possibly the worst reason. Young players pretty much always struggle at faceoffs, and it's one of the most teachable skills for a young player.
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21 mai 2020 à 18 h 21
#12
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Quoting: SlickWilly
Jack hughes FO% was almost as bad as Dach's. It happens to rookies. If he sucks at faceoffs in 3 years its a problem. Until then its not really a pressing issue


Don’t get me wrong I’m not questioning hughes’ deficiencies at the dot too. However, as I’ve told many people on this site, please stop comparing Dach to kakko and Hughes and using them as a way to show how Dach has been. The three collectively were one of the worst top threesomes in a draft class in recent memory statically.

Not attacking that logic, believe me it warrants comparison and reminder. But these three together were not great. Yes, Dach at least excelled on defense, whereas the other two were just having a tough transition.
21 mai 2020 à 18 h 21
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Quoting: csick
Batherson has 1st line potential. I think he has 60-65pts high end potential. Formenton probably more of a 2nd line winger, better version of Grabner/Hagelin but a bit less valuable than Kreider


I like Formenton's upside A LOT. I think he's a boom or bust type of guy at the moment, but if he can bulk up he's definitely got some PK potential as his floor.
21 mai 2020 à 18 h 22
#14
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Quoting: csick
Batherson has 1st line potential. I think he has 60-65pts high end potential. Formenton probably more of a 2nd line winger, better version of Grabner/Hagelin but a bit less valuable than Kreider


Batherson has been very remarkable in his rise over the last two years. Formenton, straight is one of my favorite prospects on any team. His speed is out of sight.
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21 mai 2020 à 18 h 26
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Don’t get me wrong I’m not questioning hughes’ deficiencies at the dot too. However, as I’ve told many people on this site, please stop comparing Dach to kakko and Hughes and using them as a way to show how Dach has been. The three collectively were one of the worst top threesomes in a draft class in recent memory statically.

Not attacking that logic, believe me it warrants comparison and reminder. But these three together were not great. Yes, Dach at least excelled on defense, whereas the other two were just having a tough transition.


Yeah for sure it wasnt great, but im speaking to only faceoffs, which was pretty much his only downfall, comparatively for other rookies too. Cody Glass only had a 42% FO, Barrett Hayton had a 37, and Nick Suzuki had the best with a 46. Rookies tend to be worse at taking faceoffs because they dont have the experience against guys who are much stronger than them
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21 mai 2020 à 18 h 26
#16
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Batherson has been very remarkable in his rise over the last two years. Formenton, straight is one of my favorite prospects on any team. His speed is out of sight.


He’s pretty tall too and can be physical. Just dump the puck out to center ice and he has a breakaway. I look forward to seeing him out race the Dmen on a PK and scoring a lot of short handed
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21 mai 2020 à 18 h 26
#17
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Quoting: Claesson4Norris
Batherson is a very good player. He's got a very well rounded skillset as a passer and a shooter, he's a physical player and engaged in all three zones. He's not a Centre. I've watched a lot of him not just at the NHL level, but the AHL, and I'm not sure if he's ever even taken a faceoff.

Of all the possible reasons to give up on a young player, faceoff ability is possibly the worst reason. Young players pretty much always struggle at faceoffs, and it's one of the most teachable skills for a young player.


That’s a fair assessment. In all honesty, the logic in this trade centered around getting two good to great pieces for one great piece. If I can get batherson and formenton for Dach, when you have three picks in a star studded draft where you can get another center (perhaps lundell), ill risk it.
21 mai 2020 à 18 h 32
#18
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Quoting: HatterTParty
That’s a fair assessment. In all honesty, the logic in this trade centered around getting two good to great pieces for one great piece. If I can get batherson and formenton for Dach, when you have three picks in a star studded draft where you can get another center (perhaps lundell), ill risk it.


Does Dach have 1st line potential? Like will he put up 60-80 pts?
21 mai 2020 à 18 h 33
#19
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Quoting: SlickWilly
Yeah for sure it wasnt great, but im speaking to only faceoffs, which was pretty much his only downfall, comparatively for other rookies too. Cody Glass only had a 42% FO, Barrett Hayton had a 37, and Nick Suzuki had the best with a 46. Rookies tend to be worse at taking faceoffs because they dont have the experience against guys who are much stronger than them


You’re spot on. Faceoffs do come off as hard for the rookies. To be fair though, remember Cody glass spent an extra 2 years in juniors and his sample size this year was only 39 games because of injury. Nick Suzuki I believe took a similar path as well. Dach and Hughes were immediate rookies, and in Dach’s case, he was almost 10% lower than glass. Point I’m making is that the only thing that worries me for Dach and Hughes is that they need to learn at an accelerated pace that doesn’t include much patience. It’s not impossible obviously.
21 mai 2020 à 18 h 35
#20
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Okay, let start by zeroing in on a phrase you used. You said “best player of the 2020 draft.” Let me ask, you do mean as of this moment, right?

Also, I’m not questioning his two way game, it’s good. It’d be nice if he ever learns to win faceoffs, and learns how to shoot a puck. But I digress. As for being better on the wing than batherson/formenton, I mean, I guess. I’m not gonna diss another teams’ prospects especially when I like em.


Batherson and Formenton are also 2-3 years older, and still are worse as of now.

I'm not even a Chicago fan, I'm just saying that Dach is a future good 1C while those likely won't. It's like trading Couturier for Kadri and Burakovsky. It would never happen.
21 mai 2020 à 18 h 38
#21
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Quoting: HatterTParty
You’re spot on. Faceoffs do come off as hard for the rookies. To be fair though, remember Cody glass spent an extra 2 years in juniors and his sample size this year was only 39 games because of injury. Nick Suzuki I believe took a similar path as well. Dach and Hughes were immediate rookies, and in Dach’s case, he was almost 10% lower than glass. Point I’m making is that the only thing that worries me for Dach and Hughes is that they need to learn at an accelerated pace that doesn’t include much patience. It’s not impossible obviously.


Yeah I agree, having the 2 extra years gives them extra time to fill out their frame, so in Dach's case im even less worried about that. That's why Im not worried about him at all. I dont think he has the superstar potential at this point, but he's gonna be a damn good center
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21 mai 2020 à 18 h 40
#22
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Quoting: csick
Does Dach have 1st line potential? Like will he put up 60-80 pts?


I’d say it depends who you talk to. Dach shields the puck very well and he has good vision. His passing is touted as elite, however, in his rookie year that hasn’t been at that level. That kinda speaks to his minutes and line mates too though. He is good at the front of the net and once he puts on size, he should be a difficult task to deal with. I will say his slender size this year has seen him knocked on his ass a few times. My biggest complaint about his offense is his shot. Dach, pure and simple, doesn’t have a shot. Its accuracy is average to above average, but his power is so weak for a guy his size.

To round out, Dach could hit that potential. I still see him as a 2C cuz I don’t see him hitting 80 points. He is a great defensive player, but his shot needs improvement and none of his goals came off deflections this year, so hand eye needs some focus if he’s gonna be a net front threat.
21 mai 2020 à 18 h 44
#23
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Quoting: SlickWilly
Yeah I agree, having the 2 extra years gives them extra time to fill out their frame, so in Dach's case im even less worried about that. That's why Im not worried about him at all. I dont think he has the superstar potential at this point, but he's gonna be a damn good center


I can definitely agree with you on that. He’ll be good, very good even. I just don’t like everyone jumping ahead and calling him a superstar or even elite yet. He showed great potential this year, but Jesus, the bar was pretty low. I just wanna see some offensive growth from him. That’s my major concern with him besides faceoffs. Till then 2C is fine by me.
21 mai 2020 à 18 h 45
#24
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Keep Dach. I agree with rebuilding though
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21 mai 2020 à 18 h 50
#25
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Quoting: firezfurx
Batherson and Formenton are also 2-3 years older, and still are worse as of now.

I'm not even a Chicago fan, I'm just saying that Dach is a future good 1C while those likely won't. It's like trading Couturier for Kadri and Burakovsky. It would never happen.


Well, respectfully, batherson and formenton are damn good pieces. Do they mean to the sens what Dach does to the hawks? Probably not. Batherson is a top sixer and formenton is a middle sixer judging by most evaluations.

As of now though, people gotta stop thinking Dach is the preordained 1C of the future. Dach is good on defense, he showed that this year. But Jesus, it’s not like his offense is elite yet. Again, YET. 28 games in 29 without a point. Everyone can say all they want about “only playing 15 minutes a game.” But he wasn’t playing with nobodies alllllllll that time. He is a future 2C as it stands. That’s fine! Another year where he shows maturity, offensive development, and some faceoff ability, yes, he could reach 1C potential.
 
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