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How I see the team's players

20 mai 2020 à 10 h 1
#1
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Looking at the trades on here that people have had for MN players this is my rankings for them. I'm leaving out the prospects except Kaprizov.

Untradeable (NMCs) even though I'd like to:
Parise
Suter
Spurgeon
Zucc

Stuck with unless MN pays to make them go away:
Rask

Players that shouldn't be traded unless it's a huge overpay:
JEE
Kaprizov
Kunin
Fiala
Stalock (I don't really like him, but he's cheap and is the expansion draft eligible goalie)

Players to be had for the right price but if they don't get that then keep them:
Dumba
Brodin
Greenway
Donato
Hartman (I really like him on the 4th line, RFA still, and he's a RHS)

Players to hold onto until the TDL and make a decision:
Foligno
Staal
Brodin (if he doesn't get the return needed in the offseason)

Players that are excess and would take random picks for:
Pateryn
Hunt

Players that are in limbo:
Soucy (he can be a UFA at the end of the season)
Dub (no market for him, bad season, only 1 year left)
Chucky (UFA after the season, but wouldn't mind bringing him back for cheap)
Koivu (should probably retire, but if he takes a $1m x 1 deal then I'd re-sign him)
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21 mai 2020 à 20 h 35
#2
Hockey Fan13
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I think Suter is the only iron clad untradeable.

I disagree with Greenway I would move him before he loses all value. I just don't see the aggression necessary to consistently play the way the Wild dream he can.

Brodin to me is only tradeable if he is part of a deal bringing back a 1c.

Otherwise I think we are in agreement, I'm probably less inclined to re-sign Chucky but i get it.
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22 mai 2020 à 6 h 7
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Quoting: Paul13
I think Suter is the only iron clad untradeable.

I disagree with Greenway I would move him before he loses all value. I just don't see the aggression necessary to consistently play the way the Wild dream he can.

Brodin to me is only tradeable if he is part of a deal bringing back a 1c.

Otherwise I think we are in agreement, I'm probably less inclined to re-sign Chucky but i get it.


Greenway improved a lot on the ice last year. He hasn't quite figured out the sweet spot of for how aggressive/physical to be yet. He's still learning how to use his size and strength best. It's something he couldn't do until he hit the pros because he's so much bigger than everyone else. If he can keep learning from Foligno he will be at least a quality, 2-way, pita to play against, 3rd liner. He's the type of player MN was missing (and spent a lot of draft picks trying to get) in almost all of their Playoff runs.

I do think one of him or Donato needs to be traded, it's simply a numbers game of too many LWs.
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22 mai 2020 à 8 h 36
#4
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Quoting: wabit
Greenway improved a lot on the ice last year. He hasn't quite figured out the sweet spot of for how aggressive/physical to be yet. He's still learning how to use his size and strength best. It's something he couldn't do until he hit the pros because he's so much bigger than everyone else. If he can keep learning from Foligno he will be at least a quality, 2-way, pita to play against, 3rd liner. He's the type of player MN was missing (and spent a lot of draft picks trying to get) in almost all of their Playoff runs.

I do think one of him or Donato needs to be traded, it's simply a numbers game of too many LWs.


Greenway would have a stretch of 2 or 3 games where he would play like the Wild need him to then he would disappear for a month.
His smiling while someone punches him in the face tells me he doesn't play with a chip on his shoulder or aggression.
I understand the need to be patient as power forward types usually take a while to emerge and learn their game, but with Greenway I think he knows his game and he is physically ready to do it. I just think the right mentality isn't there.
I think there would be a better return for Greenway than Donato and that's why I would move Greenway before the rest of the league realizes he lacks the necessary anger in his game.
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22 mai 2020 à 22 h 23
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Fair analysis.

I'm in nearly full agreement. The player I'm most torn on is Foligno since it seems like he's a glue guy in the locker room and a voice that's extremely respected (hence why his name is in the rumor mill for our next captain) but ultimately he's not much more than a well above average 4th liner and probably a slightly below average 3rd liner. The almost $3M cap hit is kind of a lot for that type of player on paper. My heart wants to extend him but my brain says to move on.
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22 mai 2020 à 22 h 46
#6
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Quoting: TanSor
Fair analysis.

I'm in nearly full agreement. The player I'm most torn on is Foligno since it seems like he's a glue guy in the locker room and a voice that's extremely respected (hence why his name is in the rumor mill for our next captain) but ultimately he's not much more than a well above average 4th liner and probably a slightly below average 3rd liner. The almost $3M cap hit is kind of a lot for that type of player on paper. My heart wants to extend him but my brain says to move on.


I think Wild should definitely extend Foligno, as long as it doesn't come with a NMC or more money.
I really think Spurgeon is the next captain based on time here and length of next contract, he is also very well liked. However Koivu was the perfect captain, not a guy to mince words just says what needs saying.
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23 mai 2020 à 6 h 4
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Quoting: TanSor
Fair analysis.

I'm in nearly full agreement. The player I'm most torn on is Foligno since it seems like he's a glue guy in the locker room and a voice that's extremely respected (hence why his name is in the rumor mill for our next captain) but ultimately he's not much more than a well above average 4th liner and probably a slightly below average 3rd liner. The almost $3M cap hit is kind of a lot for that type of player on paper. My heart wants to extend him but my brain says to move on.


It would depend on the contract for me. $3m x 3 is about the max I would be okay with re-signing him for, but would wait to do that after the expansion draft. He'll be 30, plays a heavy game and has the injuries that go along with that game.

He's my favorite player on the team; like if I was going to get a jersey it would be his; but the business side of the game outweighs the "I like the guy" for me.
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23 mai 2020 à 15 h 30
#8
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Brodin is the guy I’m most torn on. He’s such a good defenseman, I’d hate to lose him but I wonder what his next contract will look like. Considering they may need cap for Fiala and Kaprizov if they’re for real, they can’t afford to be a reverse Toronto and spend so much cap on defense. If they get Soucy back at a decent cap hit, one of Dumba or Brodin need to go just to make the cap work imo.
23 mai 2020 à 15 h 32
#9
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Quoting: Paul13
Greenway would have a stretch of 2 or 3 games where he would play like the Wild need him to then he would disappear for a month.
His smiling while someone punches him in the face tells me he doesn't play with a chip on his shoulder or aggression.
I understand the need to be patient as power forward types usually take a while to emerge and learn their game, but with Greenway I think he knows his game and he is physically ready to do it. I just think the right mentality isn't there.
I think there would be a better return for Greenway than Donato and that's why I would move Greenway before the rest of the league realizes he lacks the necessary anger in his game.


Every time I watch Greenway, my mind immediately thinks “I thought we traded Coyle..” so I tend to agree with you that he really needs to figure out how to play a consistent physical presence role. He doesn’t seem to be a goal scorer or playmaker so not much else for him.
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4 juin 2020 à 16 h 35
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I missed the comment about who is the next captain of the team. It's Koivu's until he retires (or gives it up). After Koivu retires I think it'll got to a short term guy Foligno/Staal and then it'll be Kunin's (maybe JEE). The Parise/Suter window has passed to wear the "C", Spurgeon falls into this group too. The team has turned over a lot in the last 2 seasons, so it's new guys that are taking control of the team's future. The team's overall game has gone to a much heavier mindset, not the no touch (outside of Clutterbuck) way the Wild played for years.

To me Spurgeon isn't a "C" for a lot of reasons: He can't standup for anyone on the ice. He makes for an easy target on the ice (we've seen someone go after the Koivu because he wears the "C"). He's injured way too often. I haven't seen that "angry Koivu" ability to turn the team around during a bad game; Foligno did things lots of time this year to get the team to pull their head from ***.

I don't know the locker-room stuff other than things from Russo or the tv crew, but both of those have been floating the Foligno as the next "C" quite a bit this year. It feels like a selective leak to get the fans' reactions and laying the groundwork for it to happen.
4 juin 2020 à 17 h 8
#11
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From all accounts Donato is a great person, but he is a completely redundant part imo i think he needs to get moved. Zuccarello is the same and id pay a team to take him off our hands...
I completely agree with all the reasons above on why Spurgeon should not be the next captain. In my gut, i also dont feel like Kunin is a candidate either...i always get the impression his leadership qualities are forced, not natural, but i have absolutely no proof of this.
Foligno should be signed to the exact sane deal he was originally signed for AND be given a 3rd line role. His offensive ability and hockey IQ was completely missed by Boudreau. IMO, Foligno can be a 40 point/year guy if given the opportunity. Heck, id even put him on the 2nd pp unit abd have him create havoc in front of the net. I think he could crest a lot of extra space gor the other 4 and knock in a few rebounds as well.
IMO, Brodin has passed Suter up as the top LHD, but will never be given the minutes he deserves with Suter and Leipold being bffs... i do, however, think it would be ok to trade him even if a #1 center isnt part of the return. I would take picks and/or younger D prospects or a high end #2 center for him as well...but it would have to be a package that blows me away! My reason for this is simply because there are only about 10 true #1 centers in the NHL and as great as Brodin is, he’s not gonna get us one so the Wild would be better served accumulating 2 or 3 #2 centers instead.

As Ive stated 1000 times, if a player becomes virtually untradeable before the ink even dries on the contract, it’s a horrible contract. Spurgeon and Zuccarello are prime examples of this and i am struggling to get over the stupidity behind both contracts... Dammit - i was hoping to feel better after a quick venting session, but i still hate both deals and admittedly resent both GMs and both players For these contracts...

Lastly, i hope Koivu retires. I am from the camp that has appreciated him his entire career...even if he has been overpaid by a million+ for the past 9 years... I also hope (but have no confidence it will happen) that Suter and Parise will tske a back seat to the younger players and let them guide the ship going forward.
4 juin 2020 à 20 h 21
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@MNBassman I disagree about Kunin and his leadership being forced. He's wore the "C" (and not been the best player) on:
- two Gold winning WJC teams: U-18, U-20
- USDP (This team was stacked for skill/talent, Matthews, Tkachuck, Keller, etc)
- UW (Like the 2nd Soph in school history, but the team was pretty bad overall)

I don't think he wants to drop the gloves or try and make the big hit to get his team going, but he's willing to do whatever he thinks it takes for the team to succeed (similar to Foligno). He has a motor like Parise and doesn't take shifts off. The locker-room stuff I got no clue on (I'm not in them), but there must be something there is multiple coaches have given him the responsibility of wearing the "C".
5 juin 2020 à 7 h 33
#13
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Quoting: wabit
@MNBassman I disagree about Kunin and his leadership being forced. He's wore the "C" (and not been the best player) on:
- two Gold winning WJC teams: U-18, U-20
- USDP (This team was stacked for skill/talent, Matthews, Tkachuck, Keller, etc)
- UW (Like the 2nd Soph in school history, but the team was pretty bad overall)

I don't think he wants to drop the gloves or try and make the big hit to get his team going, but he's willing to do whatever he thinks it takes for the team to succeed (similar to Foligno). He has a motor like Parise and doesn't take shifts off. The locker-room stuff I got no clue on (I'm not in them), but there must be something there is multiple coaches have given him the responsibility of wearing the "C".


Like i said, it’s just a vibe i get from him...nothing based on anything i know. And you are right, he’s been given the C his entire life by many different coaches so he clearly has leadership qualities, but there’s just something about him that bugs me... But i admit, i’m pretty sure im wrong here, and definitely hope i am.
5 juin 2020 à 12 h 3
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Quoting: MNBassman
Like i said, it’s just a vibe i get from him...nothing based on anything i know. And you are right, he’s been given the C his entire life by many different coaches so he clearly has leadership qualities, but there’s just something about him that bugs me... But i admit, i’m pretty sure im wrong here, and definitely hope i am.


Is it the "where is the rest", or the "I want more from his game" vibe; that Colye/Nino/Granny had for so long?
5 juin 2020 à 12 h 27
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Quoting: wabit
Is it the "where is the rest", or the "I want more from his game" vibe; that Colye/Nino/Granny had for so long?


No - my expectations for him as hockey player are completely separate from my inklings about his leadership qualities.

It’s his inability to process the game at high speeds that i think will limit him to a middle 6 role his entire career, but this has nothing yo do with him being a future captain or not.
5 juin 2020 à 12 h 54
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Quoting: MNBassman
No - my expectations for him as hockey player are completely separate from my inklings about his leadership qualities.

It’s his inability to process the game at high speeds that i think will limit him to a middle 6 role his entire career, but this has nothing yo do with him being a future captain or not.


I don't see that in him. I see a kid who has been bounced around between wing/center and linemates before he even played a full season's worth of games in the NHL. He just ends up making the rookie mistakes at 2 positions. A lot of his mistakes on the ice is from getting his assignments crossed due the bouncing around, or at least that's how I see it.
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5 juin 2020 à 14 h 50
#17
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Quoting: wabit
I don't see that in him. I see a kid who has been bounced around between wing/center and linemates before he even played a full season's worth of games in the NHL. He just ends up making the rookie mistakes at 2 positions. A lot of his mistakes on the ice is from getting his assignments crossed due the bouncing around, or at least that's how I see it.


That’s possible...but i disagree. People make WAY too big of a deal out of positions and systems. It’s just hockey. Kunin has been playing hockey at the highest possible levels for years now. He has had countless coaches and played in countless systems... While I really like many parts of his game, i see too many times every game where he is a split second late to make a decision and the subsequent play. I’ve said this before, but he reminds me a lot of Zucker with his lack of processor speed. With Zucker, just about every other element of his game was borderline elite, but his inability to skate and chew gum at the same time considerably limited his overall effectiveness...and i see Kunin the exact same way.
5 juin 2020 à 15 h 37
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Quoting: MNBassman
That’s possible...but i disagree. People make WAY too big of a deal out of positions and systems. It’s just hockey. Kunin has been playing hockey at the highest possible levels for years now. He has had countless coaches and played in countless systems... While I really like many parts of his game, i see too many times every game where he is a split second late to make a decision and the subsequent play. I’ve said this before, but he reminds me a lot of Zucker with his lack of processor speed. With Zucker, just about every other element of his game was borderline elite, but his inability to skate and chew gum at the same time considerably limited his overall effectiveness...and i see Kunin the exact same way.


Again he's young, playing with different players all the time. There isn't the built in just knowing where a guy will be to just make a play. Different players do different things, as we saw with Zucc and his passes to nowhere all season he's expecting one thing from years with NYR and MN does things differently.

It's still hockey, yes, but at the NHL level they have some crazy set plays. I've been to a couple coaching clinics (which are mostly bs sessions to stay upto date for youth hockey). A couple times the coaches showed setups that they do in practice. I was thinking to myself, it was a joke. Then watch the game and that exact thing happens, it was a holy **** type of thing. They are different for different lines too.

The game hasn't slowed down for Kunin yet, and it might now ever happen. Look at JEE, it was like a switch flipped for him this year compared to previous seasons (even the start of this year) when all Wild fans were wondering if JEE was going to be a complete bust. It took Granny or Dumba (pre-injury) how many seasons to actually get to the point where the game slowed down?
5 juin 2020 à 20 h 37
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Quoting: wabit
Again he's young, playing with different players all the time. There isn't the built in just knowing where a guy will be to just make a play. Different players do different things, as we saw with Zucc and his passes to nowhere all season he's expecting one thing from years with NYR and MN does things differently.

It's still hockey, yes, but at the NHL level they have some crazy set plays. I've been to a couple coaching clinics (which are mostly bs sessions to stay upto date for youth hockey). A couple times the coaches showed setups that they do in practice. I was thinking to myself, it was a joke. Then watch the game and that exact thing happens, it was a holy **** type of thing. They are different for different lines too.

The game hasn't slowed down for Kunin yet, and it might now ever happen. Look at JEE, it was like a switch flipped for him this year compared to previous seasons (even the start of this year) when all Wild fans were wondering if JEE was going to be a complete bust. It took Granny or Dumba (pre-injury) how many seasons to actually get to the point where the game slowed down?


You make a lot of great points, as always...but i never saw slow processor speed with Ek. His issues were more physical in nature: his hands weren’t good enough, he played to not make mistakes, etc...but he could always see the game well and most of the time tried to make the right play, but simply did not have the ability to. He’s clearly worked very hard to improve his skill level and he can now do the things his brain wants him to. Kunin is the polar opposite. He has all the skill he needs, but simply can’t compute the game fast enough to get the most out of his otherwise very impressive skillset.
5 juin 2020 à 21 h 0
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Quoting: MNBassman
You make a lot of great points, as always...but i never saw slow processor speed with Ek. His issues were more physical in nature: his hands weren’t good enough, he played to not make mistakes, etc...but he could always see the game well and most of the time tried to make the right play, but simply did not have the ability to. He’s clearly worked very hard to improve his skill level and he can now do the things his brain wants him to. Kunin is the polar opposite. He has all the skill he needs, but simply can’t compute the game fast enough to get the most out of his otherwise very impressive skillset.


JEE was slow on everything whenever he had the puck. He couldn't make the simple plays, let alone the more complicated ones (remember the ghost of Cullen took the 3C spot JEE was gifted a couple years ago, or the expaiment with Greenway and a center and JEE as a wing the year after that). The foundation wasn't there from him to build from. He really should have been in the AHL for half a season before playing for in NHL.

The only player he was any good with was Foligno because he plays the simplest style of hockey game (he's sneaky good at it too). That simple north south go to the net with the puck is what turned things around for JEE. He was making the simple plays then and built from that. He also gained a lot of confidence in himself; which he was sorely lacking. The skill was there he just was more tools than toolbox.

I'll gladly take either one of JEE/Kunin over the no tools or toolbox that the FJ pick is looking to be.
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