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Why Manson is over rated detailed PLEASE READ TOR ACGM

Créé par: firezfurx
Équipe: 2020-21 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 7 mai 2020
Publié: 7 mai 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
I compare him to Severson, someone with relatively equal value

WOULD NOT TRADE FOR MANSON JUST POINTING OUT HIS VALUE
Transactions
1.
TOR
ANA
  1. Kerfoot, Alexander
  2. Liljegren, Timothy
  3. Choix de 4e ronde en 2020 (TOR)
Détails additionnels:
For me the main problem with Manson is how over rated he is. He should be worth Kapanen 1-for-1, not the ransoms that Anaheim fans demand.

Offensive value:
Offensive production is not why people want Manson, but even if it isn't a problem Toronto needs to address they should still continue to improve it with the likely loss of Johnsson/Kapanen this offseason. Before the end of the season, Manson was on track for 15 points, exactly 1/3 the points Severson was on track for. This means that Manson needs to be able to stop 30 goals that Severson wouldn't have been able to for them to have the same impact on the team. He did have one great, and I mean GREAT year a while ago with the Ducks where he almost had Severson-like production, but it's been a while. Manson has an offensive point share of -0.2, meaning if he had been replaced by your average NHL defense men he would've been better offensively for the team. Remember that Severson had an OPS of 2.0, a staggering 2.2 points ahead of Manson. But this obviously isn't Mansons strong suit, so it's unfair to critique him on this.

Defensive Value:
This is where people drastically over value Manson. People like to think of Manson as this Pesce-like defensive stud, which simply isn't as true as many believe. Manson had a DPS of 1.6, which puts him in 5th on the ducks, and 5th for DMen on the ducks. Remember Severson was a 2.4, a full 0.8 ahead. However, Manson's work may not be interpreted well by statistics so lets look at his hits and blocked shots. This year, Manson had 65 blocked shots and 113 hits. More hits, less blocked shots then Severson. Manson is also 6'3, and is a great hard-hitting guy in his own end. However, did it translate into actual defensive value? Not really.
Overall:
Corsica currently has Manson ranked 96th among defensemen. There is likely a slight biased of his limited scoring, but that shouldn't be a large enough factor to drop him from 33 (What Severson is ranked) to 96. Manson is definitely a good defensive presence. However, his limited offensive skills and his general overrated-ness makes Severson the much more attractive choice
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2020
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
1881 500 000 $76 399 783 $0 $0 $5 100 217 $
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894 167 $894 167 $
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8 mai 2020 à 2 h 33
#26
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Dubas isnt a genius
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Thats less then Kapanen 1 for 1, which ANA has zero interest in. Its less then Muzzin cost you, which makes sense since you got him at the TDL with a year left under contract. That is a complete fair deal for a non-rental top pairing defensive dman


Ya im trolling lol but there is no point in giving up a prospect that can extend your window and a 2nd that can buy you a bottom 6 forward for someone you don't think will better the team.

I hope you get what I'm saying? It's not that value wise it's off, it just isn't the defense men they need, and going back to my original post I think Severson is that guy.
8 mai 2020 à 2 h 53
#27
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Quoting: firezfurx
Ya im trolling lol but there is no point in giving up a prospect that can extend your window and a 2nd that can buy you a bottom 6 forward for someone you don't think will better the team.

I hope you get what I'm saying? It's not that value wise it's off, it just isn't the defense men they need, and going back to my original post I think Severson is that guy.


Well thats where the issue lies, Anaheim doesnt care about your middle 6 wingers they have 12 already. They need RD depth. So trading Manson is counterproductive for them unless they get a RD prospect back
8 mai 2020 à 3 h 0
#28
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Dubas isnt a genius
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Well thats where the issue lies, Anaheim doesnt care about your middle 6 wingers they have 12 already. They need RD depth. So trading Manson is counterproductive for them unless they get a RD prospect back


We. Don't. Wan't. Manson.
8 mai 2020 à 3 h 24
#29
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Quoting: firezfurx
We. Don't. Wan't. Manson.


Nah specifically you don't want Manson.
8 mai 2020 à 3 h 45
#30
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Dubas isnt a genius
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Nah specifically you don't want Manson.


Yes. In general people would rather take Severson not just me
8 mai 2020 à 3 h 54
#31
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Quoting: firezfurx
Yes. In general people would rather take Severson not just me


That doesnt mean severson is available, leafs need a stay at home RD, someone who xan kill penalties and supress shots. They will take who they can get.
8 mai 2020 à 4 h 0
#32
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
That doesnt mean severson is available, leafs need a stay at home RD, someone who xan kill penalties and supress shots. They will take who they can get.


Yes but most NJ fans want to trade Severson and we already have Muzzin and Hollsy to kill penalties, and once again Severson is good on the PK and good at suppressing shots.
8 mai 2020 à 4 h 7
#33
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Quoting: firezfurx
Yes but most NJ fans want to trade Severson and we already have Muzzin and Hollsy to kill penalties, and once again Severson is good on the PK and good at suppressing shots.


Never said he wasn't good defensive, he falls under the same category as Manson. Also, I have seen many leafs fans make proposals for Severson on here that are usually declined by Jersey fans and very minimal NJ fans make proposals trading him. IDK where you got the impression they want to move their 25 year old solid RD on a good contract.
8 mai 2020 à 7 h 34
#34
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I’m in full agreement and have been saying he’s overrated for a while. Do I want him? Sure. Am I paying Liljegren and a first? No.
8 mai 2020 à 8 h 44
#35
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Quoting: firezfurx
Manson is better defensively, or at least similar. I understand. I explained it. His DPS is the second highest on NJ, and considerably higher then Manson. However I understand Manson isn't represented by advanced stats well. His CF is the second highest on NJ, and his CA is among the lowest. And although the % is negative NJ is a bad team. Severson stops scoring oppertunities, don't try and argue me on that topic. Severson IS NOT BELOW AVERAGE OFFENSIVELY!!! He was on track for 45 points, which is fairly consistent with last year. He was only shooting a 7%, so he wasn't getting lucky either. He had the 6th highest OPS on NJ as a defencemen.


Look at his RAPM which is adjusted for TM, he has a below average GF/60, and BARELY above average at driving shots and high quality shots
8 mai 2020 à 8 h 50
#36
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Quoting: Jack_
By the time the ducks will be good again he will be 31 and up for a new contract that he will want term on. Does giving a physical defenseman a long term contract sound like a good idea to you?

If they need him so much and are sure he wants to be there they could just resign him as a ufa. Not getting assets for a depreciation player who doesnt help your team at all right now is pointless and bad asset management.

Choosing to keep a guy that hurts your odds at getting a lottery pick so you can keep him long term instead of getting premium assets for him, getting a higher pick in the draft and still getting the player once they need him again is the smartest thing to do and it isnt even close


Just bc he's up for a new contract doesn't mean he's going to want term tho... Unless your name is Faulk, how many middle pair d men have gotten 7+ yr deals... And Faulk was like 27

they're but sure he wants to be there, they're sure they need him to be there, and nothing is a certainty in the world of free agency... Plus they'll likely be a decent team the year his contract expires

Sorry, middle pairing d man that plays top pair is not gonna make or break this teams lotto odds, that statically shown by his WAR of less than 1 this yr... He brought them 2 standings points this yr...
8 mai 2020 à 22 h 29
#37
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Cause ducks fans are Americans. Simple. They don't know hockey as canadines
firezfurx a aimé ceci.
8 mai 2020 à 22 h 31
#38
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Never said he wasn't good defensive, he falls under the same category as Manson. Also, I have seen many leafs fans make proposals for Severson on here that are usually declined by Jersey fans and very minimal NJ fans make proposals trading him. IDK where you got the impression they want to move their 25 year old solid RD on a good contract.


There are devil fans who have made Kapanen + for Severson
 
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