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Créé par: csick
Équipe: 2020-21 Blackhawks de Chicago
Date de création initiale: 4 avr. 2020
Publié: 4 avr. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
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LISTE DE RÉSERVEANSCAP HIT
3925 000 $
RFAANSCAP HIT
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13 500 000 $
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23 500 000 $
CRÉÉANSCAP HIT
Sanderson, Jake
3925 000 $
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FLA
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    4 avr. 2020 à 19 h 33
    #1
    Banni
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    CHI needs to get a move on with dumping older players not resigning Crawford and bringing in Strallman.
    Hell ideally they dump Shaw, Carpenter and Saad as well. This team has already started to tear it down and build it back up. Just get it over with and finish the job.
    The only old player that should be left on this team is Kane.
    The only reason they should be stuck with Toews is because no one else is gonna want that 10 million contract.
    4 avr. 2020 à 19 h 36
    #2
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    KFTW
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    Quoting: pharrow
    CHI needs to get a move on with dumping older players not resigning Crawford and bringing in Strallman.
    Hell ideally they dump Shaw, Carpenter and Saad as well. This team has already started to tear it down and build it back up. Just get it over with and finish the job.
    The only old player that should be left on this team is Kane.
    The only reason they should be stuck with Toews is because no one else is gonna want that 10 million contract.


    Well they need to keep some veteran experience.
    4 avr. 2020 à 19 h 39
    #3
    Banni
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    Quoting: csick
    Well they need to keep some veteran experience.


    between Kane, Toews, and Keith all 3 of which they either shouldn't or won't be able to move, they will have it.
    It's not like some of them don't have experience they are 24-25 years old.
    But if they keep clutching at straws they will end up stuck in mediocrity. Bit the bullet. Do it, get it over with and if they are lucky they will turn it around. Because at this rate, it doesn't look like it's going to happen. They are just to bland.
    4 avr. 2020 à 19 h 54
    #4
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    Quoting: pharrow
    CHI needs to get a move on with dumping older players not resigning Crawford and bringing in Strallman.
    Hell ideally they dump Shaw, Carpenter and Saad as well. This team has already started to tear it down and build it back up. Just get it over with and finish the job.
    The only old player that should be left on this team is Kane.
    The only reason they should be stuck with Toews is because no one else is gonna want that 10 million contract.


    Why in the world would they get rid of Saad? This past season was one of his best, on pace for 30 goals. Saad is a beast, playing the best hockey of his career and he’s hardly “old”.
    4 avr. 2020 à 19 h 55
    #5
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    KFTW
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    Quoting: ChiHawk
    Why in the world would they get rid of Saad? This past season was one of his best, on pace for 30 goals. Saad is a beast, playing the best hockey of his career and he’s hardly “old”.


    What contract do u think he would go for? Assuming the cap is somewhere around 87 mill during the 2021-2022 season? Do u sign him if he wants 7 x 7?
    4 avr. 2020 à 19 h 58
    #6
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    Quoting: csick
    What contract do u think he would go for? Assuming the cap is somewhere around 87 mill during the 2021-2022 season? Do u sign him if he wants 7 x 7?


    He won’t get 7x7
    4 avr. 2020 à 19 h 58
    #7
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    Quoting: ChiHawk
    He won’t get 7x7


    I think 5 x 5.5 would be fair. But that’s a team friendly contract.
    ChiHawk a aimé ceci.
    4 avr. 2020 à 20 h 16
    #8
    Banni
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    Quoting: ChiHawk
    Why in the world would they get rid of Saad? This past season was one of his best, on pace for 30 goals. Saad is a beast, playing the best hockey of his career and he’s hardly “old”.


    He has more value as a rental than anything else to chicago.
    By the time this team turns the corner he'll probably be gone.
    On top of it, his number were not that good. They were ok, but he's got a whole career where he tops 30 goals 1 time, lets not pretend otherwise.

    If this team could get a 1st for his expiring deal...bye.
    4 avr. 2020 à 22 h 51
    #9
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    Quoting: pharrow
    He has more value as a rental than anything else to chicago.
    By the time this team turns the corner he'll probably be gone.
    On top of it, his number were not that good. They were ok, but he's got a whole career where he tops 30 goals 1 time, lets not pretend otherwise.

    If this team could get a 1st for his expiring deal...bye.


    Maybe he has more value as a rental but hardly are the Blackhawks that far away from the playoffs, so I’d be willing to bet he is only moved at the TDL of the Hawks are out of the race next season.

    Let’s not pretend you watch Saad enough to know. He’s a defensive power forward first and foremost and excels at that role who also happened to be on pace for 30 goals. If you don’t watch him on the ice and look at goals and points totals to evaluate him you are missing the point.
    4 avr. 2020 à 22 h 52
    #10
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    Quoting: csick
    I think 5 x 5.5 would be fair. But that’s a team friendly contract.


    I think that is pretty realistic; $4.75m to $5.5M for 5 years is about right depending on the bonus structure.
    4 avr. 2020 à 22 h 56
    #11
    Banni
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    Quoting: ChiHawk
    Maybe he has more value as a rental but hardly are the Blackhawks that far away from the playoffs, so I’d be willing to bet he is only moved at the TDL of the Hawks are out of the race next season.

    Let’s not pretend you watch Saad enough to know. He’s a defensive power forward first and foremost and excels at that role who also happened to be on pace for 30 goals. If you don’t watch him on the ice and look at goals and points totals to evaluate him you are missing the point.


    please don't tell me what I know and don't know about a player. I saw him play plenty with CBJ to know. That's just ignorant and arrogant on your part.

    Also, even if CHI did make the playoffs, could you really look at this team and tell me they are a contender.
    The answer is no. They would be an also made it.
    Why slow the rebuild for nothing?
    If they could move him for a 1st, they should.
    If you puddle around with being half way in on a rebuild you end up looking like Detroit. In rebuild mode forever.
    Just do it.
    5 avr. 2020 à 13 h 1
    #12
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    Quoting: pharrow
    please don't tell me what I know and don't know about a player. I saw him play plenty with CBJ to know. That's just ignorant and arrogant on your part.

    Also, even if CHI did make the playoffs, could you really look at this team and tell me they are a contender.
    The answer is no. They would be an also made it.
    Why slow the rebuild for nothing?
    If they could move him for a 1st, they should.
    If you puddle around with being half way in on a rebuild you end up looking like Detroit. In rebuild mode forever.
    Just do it.


    He hasn’t played in Columbus now for how long? You clearly haven’t watched him the last 18 months to suggest Chicago should dump him for a 1st. Hopefully you realize that only 1/3rd of 1st round picks become NHL players. It’s ignorant of you to think Saad is only worth that gamble which tells me you don’t know his value and arrogant to continue arguing about it.

    Saad is extremely important to this team if they have a chance to make the playoffs or better yet in the playoffs as Saad’s game is more playoff oriented then a lot of players and certainly a rookie.

    If you also watched the Hawks enough you’d know when they are playing in sync, they are a good team as demonstrated by beating the best in the league only to falter by loosing a lot of games against lesser teams. The Hawks need a dynamic scoring winger, but are loaded with defensive prospects, loaded with bottoms 6 prospects, and goaltending is strong. The problem is a dynamic winger and you don’t solve that by giving up your best two way defensive winger.
    5 avr. 2020 à 17 h 11
    #13
    Banni
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    Quoting: ChiHawk
    He hasn’t played in Columbus now for how long? You clearly haven’t watched him the last 18 months to suggest Chicago should dump him for a 1st. Hopefully you realize that only 1/3rd of 1st round picks become NHL players. It’s ignorant of you to think Saad is only worth that gamble which tells me you don’t know his value and arrogant to continue arguing about it.

    Saad is extremely important to this team if they have a chance to make the playoffs or better yet in the playoffs as Saad’s game is more playoff oriented then a lot of players and certainly a rookie.

    If you also watched the Hawks enough you’d know when they are playing in sync, they are a good team as demonstrated by beating the best in the league only to falter by loosing a lot of games against lesser teams. The Hawks need a dynamic scoring winger, but are loaded with defensive prospects, loaded with bottoms 6 prospects, and goaltending is strong. The problem is a dynamic winger and you don’t solve that by giving up your best two way defensive winger.


    He's the same player he was in CBJ lets not pretend he's not.
    1st round picks actually have over a 50% chance of becoming an NHL player.

    A simple look at this team would tell you the future is in guys 25 and younger. They are not going to "win now."
    Stick in mediocrity forever. But if you are going to get somewhere before Kane is too old to be useful you are going to have to go all in on the rebuild instead of thinking you can patchwork it.
    You got 1 year left of the guy. You act like you got 5 years control. You don't. He's most likely gone at the end of the season. If he can play for a cup, he will. He can't do that in chicago.
    5 avr. 2020 à 17 h 55
    #14
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    Quoting: pharrow
    He's the same player he was in CBJ lets not pretend he's not.
    1st round picks actually have over a 50% chance of becoming an NHL player.

    A simple look at this team would tell you the future is in guys 25 and younger. They are not going to "win now."
    Stick in mediocrity forever. But if you are going to get somewhere before Kane is too old to be useful you are going to have to go all in on the rebuild instead of thinking you can patchwork it.
    You got 1 year left of the guy. You act like you got 5 years control. You don't. He's most likely gone at the end of the season. If he can play for a cup, he will. He can't do that in chicago.


    You are wrong on the odds of a 1st rounder becoming a NHL player; they are roughly 30% chance that a 1st rounder becomes a full time NHL player for 1 season or more. Furthermore, those odds go down dramatically when you exclude top 10 picks. So unless you think Saad is going to pull a top 10 pick, then anyone who’d trade him for a mid 1st or late 1st in the offseason and not at the up and coming TDL (if the Hawks are out of it) has no clue what they are doing.
    5 avr. 2020 à 18 h 16
    #15
    Banni
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    Quoting: ChiHawk
    You are wrong on the odds of a 1st rounder becoming a NHL player; they are roughly 30% chance that a 1st rounder becomes a full time NHL player for 1 season or more. Furthermore, those odds go down dramatically when you exclude top 10 picks. So unless you think Saad is going to pull a top 10 pick, then anyone who’d trade him for a mid 1st or late 1st in the offseason and not at the up and coming TDL (if the Hawks are out of it) has no clue what they are doing.


    https://guelphstorm.com/odds-not-great-for-nhl-draft-picks

    played in at least 200 contests. 63% of first round picks played but less than 25% of second round picks survived and only 12% of third rounder selections.

    I don't know why you are even arguing this.
    This is one of the most well known studies out there and even it is old the numbers are most likely improved today with the amount of data that is collected on players today compared to the past.

    200 games is over 2 years. It's 50+% for a career player noted as 600 games.

    Please, stop making things up and making yourself look foolish.
    5 avr. 2020 à 23 h 45
    #16
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    Quoting: pharrow
    https://guelphstorm.com/odds-not-great-for-nhl-draft-picks

    played in at least 200 contests. 63% of first round picks played but less than 25% of second round picks survived and only 12% of third rounder selections.

    I don't know why you are even arguing this.
    This is one of the most well known studies out there and even it is old the numbers are most likely improved today with the amount of data that is collected on players today compared to the past.

    200 games is over 2 years. It's 50+% for a career player noted as 600 games.

    Please, stop making things up and making yourself look foolish.


    What’s making you look foolish is a 21 year study looking at a 10 year period between 1990 and 1991. Perhaps we should look at this Millenium no?

    In the 2018 season; of all the NHL players that played a minimum of 15 games in the season, only 39% came from the 1st round of the draft and 15 games is a pretty low bar to set.

    You can take take any single season and figure this out and willing to bet if you even move that to 21 games, you’d see that 39% slide down even more so.

    Now if you want to get real here, assume that Saad returns a bottom 1/2 1st rounder, what do you think those odds are of landing a NHL player and moreso an impact player?

    Simple deductive reasoning and common sense would allow you to see that aside from the TDL next season if the Hawks are clearly out, moving Saad for a 1st round pick makes very little sense. Like most fans, especially on here, draft picks outside the top 10 are highly overrated.
    6 avr. 2020 à 3 h 40
    #17
    Banni
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    Quoting: ChiHawk
    What’s making you look foolish is a 21 year study looking at a 10 year period between 1990 and 1991. Perhaps we should look at this Millenium no?

    In the 2018 season; of all the NHL players that played a minimum of 15 games in the season, only 39% came from the 1st round of the draft and 15 games is a pretty low bar to set.

    You can take take any single season and figure this out and willing to bet if you even move that to 21 games, you’d see that 39% slide down even more so.

    Now if you want to get real here, assume that Saad returns a bottom 1/2 1st rounder, what do you think those odds are of landing a NHL player and moreso an impact player?

    Simple deductive reasoning and common sense would allow you to see that aside from the TDL next season if the Hawks are clearly out, moving Saad for a 1st round pick makes very little sense. Like most fans, especially on here, draft picks outside the top 10 are highly overrated.


    you keep trying to knock a legit study on draft picks and games played. As if the data is some sort of mythical thing.

    You really just don't get the argument. Saad is little more value than a rental. He has one year of term left that's it.
    You think you are getting the moon for a rental winger. You are not.

    Meanwhile you are stuck in mediocrity trying to rebuild while clutching on. Take a good look at that team. That's not a retool going on. It's a straight full rebuild.
    The only players there other than Kane that are being held is because no one else is trading for those huge contracts. Toews is not worth 10 million a year. If they could dump that they would.
    Seabrook is also dead weight only there because they can't get rid of him.
    Keith is the only other one there that might actually still be worth his value.
    Everyone else is younger tending to the 25 and under catagory.

    You hold Saad, a rental, and get no return. Cool. where does that leave you?
    No where.
    Come FA he's gone. Because why would anyone who wants to win stay with a team spinning it's wheels and going no where.
    6 avr. 2020 à 14 h 32
    #18
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    Quoting: pharrow
    you keep trying to knock a legit study on draft picks and games played. As if the data is some sort of mythical thing.

    You really just don't get the argument. Saad is little more value than a rental. He has one year of term left that's it.
    You think you are getting the moon for a rental winger. You are not.

    Meanwhile you are stuck in mediocrity trying to rebuild while clutching on. Take a good look at that team. That's not a retool going on. It's a straight full rebuild.
    The only players there other than Kane that are being held is because no one else is trading for those huge contracts. Toews is not worth 10 million a year. If they could dump that they would.
    Seabrook is also dead weight only there because they can't get rid of him.
    Keith is the only other one there that might actually still be worth his value.
    Everyone else is younger tending to the 25 and under catagory.

    You hold Saad, a rental, and get no return. Cool. where does that leave you?
    No where.
    Come FA he's gone. Because why would anyone who wants to win stay with a team spinning it's wheels and going no where.


    You shared a study from 20 years ago collecting data from 30 to 20 years ago; it’s not mythological but the data is dated and that is clear as day; you just didn’t realize there are other MODERN day analysis studying recent years. I even pointed out how easy this is to do on your own by simply looking at how many 1st rounders played at least 21 games in the current season or recent seasons...you know not 30 years ago.

    Saad will get a haul better then Taffoli at the TDL next season. There is absolutely ZERO reason to trade him in the off-season as his value will INCREASE at the TDL. The only way the Hawks will consider moving him at the TDL is if they are out of the playoffs, and even then, they may extend him.

    Furthermore, pretty sure Saad for wants to stay in Chicago with his friends and teammates...you know why? He already had two rings and he’s playing in a top 3 if not top market. Had he not already had two rings you might be right. Clearly you haven’t or don’t know anyone who’s played pro, players hate moving and uprooting when they laid down their roots somewhere which Saad has done in Chicago.
    6 avr. 2020 à 18 h 7
    #19
    Banni
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    Quoting: ChiHawk
    You shared a study from 20 years ago collecting data from 30 to 20 years ago; it’s not mythological but the data is dated and that is clear as day; you just didn’t realize there are other MODERN day analysis studying recent years. I even pointed out how easy this is to do on your own by simply looking at how many 1st rounders played at least 21 games in the current season or recent seasons...you know not 30 years ago.

    Saad will get a haul better then Taffoli at the TDL next season. There is absolutely ZERO reason to trade him in the off-season as his value will INCREASE at the TDL. The only way the Hawks will consider moving him at the TDL is if they are out of the playoffs, and even then, they may extend him.

    Furthermore, pretty sure Saad for wants to stay in Chicago with his friends and teammates...you know why? He already had two rings and he’s playing in a top 3 if not top market. Had he not already had two rings you might be right. Clearly you haven’t or don’t know anyone who’s played pro, players hate moving and uprooting when they laid down their roots somewhere which Saad has done in Chicago.


    yeah sure thing, you and him are like best friends eh?

    PS. there is nothing wrong with the study. At all, It is as true today as ever. Hell if you even bothered to look at your own team you'd realize there are 12 1st round picks on it.
    But you keep thinking that less than 50% of players drafted in the 1st round don't make the NHL.
    If you took the last 10 years that's roughly 300 picks. Which would mean less than 150 players give or take like 2 for vegas. Not that those drafts even count because most of those players are still developing.
    That would be 5.... picks per team, if you excluded vegas. I tell you what, You name me 5 teams in the whole league who got less than 5 1st round picks on it. Rocket scientist.
    Don't post another reply till you do. Don't know one care what you got to stay till then.
    6 avr. 2020 à 23 h 36
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    Quoting: pharrow
    yeah sure thing, you and him are like best friends eh?

    PS. there is nothing wrong with the study. At all, It is as true today as ever. Hell if you even bothered to look at your own team you'd realize there are 12 1st round picks on it.
    But you keep thinking that less than 50% of players drafted in the 1st round don't make the NHL.
    If you took the last 10 years that's roughly 300 picks. Which would mean less than 150 players give or take like 2 for vegas. Not that those drafts even count because most of those players are still developing.
    That would be 5.... picks per team, if you excluded vegas. I tell you what, You name me 5 teams in the whole league who got less than 5 1st round picks on it. Rocket scientist.
    Don't post another reply till you do. Don't know one care what you got to stay till then.


    You wouldn’t be surprised who I personally know given my history and chosen profession. All I can you is careful about assuming too much.

    Not interested in your 30 year old study, the fact you keep citing that shows the weakness in you position.

    Fact, 39% of NHL players that played more then 15 games are 1st rounders from the 2018 season...that is a fact.

    You must be young or not college educated to not understand statistical analysis. I know the Canadian education system isn’t great but come on kid.
    7 avr. 2020 à 1 h 12
    #21
    Banni
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    Quoting: ChiHawk
    You wouldn’t be surprised who I personally know given my history and chosen profession. All I can you is careful about assuming too much.

    Not interested in your 30 year old study, the fact you keep citing that shows the weakness in you position.

    Fact, 39% of NHL players that played more then 15 games are 1st rounders from the 2018 season...that is a fact.

    You must be young or not college educated to not understand statistical analysis. I know the Canadian education system isn’t great but come on kid.


    ok lets do the math since you can figure it out.
    Lets take 10 years of drafts. that's 300 players, we won't count the last 2 because those players really haven't arrived yet.

    divide that by your less that 50%
    that's 150 players, or less.
    Now 12 +6 + 2 goalies as the backups do play. + 31 teams = 620 players.
    150/620 = 24%

    So 39% you say....yup more than 50% of players are on teams.
    I know.....understanding how basic math works in the real world is hard.
     
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