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Dougie Hamilton Sign-and-Trade With Anaheim

Créé par: Hockyluv21
Équipe: 2020-21 Hurricanes de la Caroline
Date de création initiale: 30 mars 2020
Publié: 30 mars 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Vatanen takes a 1 year deal to test the market when it's in better condition post-COVID-19.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
21 900 000 $
53 580 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
13 050 000 $
Transactions
1.
ANA
  1. Dzingel, Ryan
  2. Fleury, Haydn
  3. Hamilton, Dougie
  4. Choix de 7e ronde en 2021 (STL)
Détails additionnels:
Hamilton is extended by the Ducks for 8 years, $11M AAV.
2.
CAR
  1. Rafferty, Brogan
  2. Choix de 5e ronde en 2021 (VAN)
VAN
  1. McKeown, Roland [Droits de RFA]
  2. Mrázek, Petr (1 562 500 $ retained)
Rachats de contrats
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2020
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2022
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Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Hurricanes de la Caroline
863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance500 000 $$500K)
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RFA - 1

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30 mars 2020 à 15 h 20
#1
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How does this make any sense for the Ducks?
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30 mars 2020 à 15 h 21
#2
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Quoting: Random2152
How does this make any sense for the Ducks?


The Ducks have a huge amount of amazing forward prospects, but little in the way of defensemen. This helps to balance out their team and gives them a true franchise guy for 8 years on the right-hand side, as well as a solid LHD piece in Fleury.
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 22
#3
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Hamilton for Fowler and a second is about right.
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 25
#4
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Quoting: Hockyluv21
The Ducks have a huge amount of amazing forward prospects, but little in the way of defensemen. This helps to balance out their team and gives them a true franchise guy for 8 years on the right-hand side, as well as a solid LHD piece in Fleury.


So who exactly is going to play centre for them? Steel is good, but he projects more as a 2 or a high end 3C. Moving Zegras makes zero sense for them to do.

Quoting: OldNYIfan
Hamilton for Fowler and a second is about right.



NOOOOOOOOOO IT IS NOT MY GOD. Hamilton should have won the Norris (had he been healthy). Fowler has been pedestrian for a few years (although recently had a small resurgence to be a solid #3 option)
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30 mars 2020 à 15 h 29
#5
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Quoting: Random2152
So who exactly is going to play centre for them? Steel is good, but he projects more as a 2 or a high end 3C. Moving Zegras makes zero sense for them to do.


Anaheim's forward cupboard is bursting at the seams (Comtois, Terry, Lundestrom, Jones, and Steel, among others), 2020 is going to be a great draft for centermen, and it is far more likely that one of those prospects (at the spot that Anaheim is likely to pick at) will be as good or better than Zegras than someone like Drysdale being even close to as valuable as Hamilton will be long-term. That's the bet that you make with a deal like this.
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 32
#6
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Quoting: Hockyluv21
2020 is going to be a great draft for centermen, and it is far more likely that one of those prospects (at the spot that Anaheim is likely to pick at) will be as good or better than Zegras than someone like Drysdale being even close to as valuable as Hamilton will be long-term. That's the bet that you make with a deal like this.


But why would you give up on a much more sure thing as a 1C and go gamble again when a 1C is the most coveted position in the entire league. And if you don't and you're right that the draft has many (which most draft experts say the opposite), you now have two 1C's. I see no issue there.

I'm sorry but ANH declines. It just doesn't make sense for them.
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 36
#7
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Quoting: Random2152
But why would you give up on a much more sure thing as a 1C and go gamble again when a 1C is the most coveted position in the entire league. And if you don't and you're right that the draft has many (which most draft experts say the opposite), you now have two 1C's. I see no issue there.

I'm sorry but ANH declines. It just doesn't make sense for them.


Zegras COULD be a 1C, or he could just be a very good 2C. Again, look at Anaheim's roster composition. Their defense is like a complete dead zone on the right-hand side outside of Manson. Hamilton ALONE provides 3.07 GSVA as a RHD, the games above-replacement equivalent of not just a 1C, but an elite 1C.
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 37
#8
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Quoting: Random2152
NOOOOOOOOOO IT IS NOT MY GOD. Hamilton should have won the Norris (had he been healthy). Fowler has been pedestrian for a few years (although recently had a small resurgence to be a solid #3 option)


Fowler had the best single game of any defenseman in the 2018-2019 season and has operated at a high level for most of the last two seasons. If we have to pay more for Hamilton than Fowler and a second, we're not interested.
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 38
#9
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Quoting: Hockyluv21
Zegras COULD be a 1C, or he could just be a very good 2C. Again, look at Anaheim's roster composition. Their defense is like a complete dead zone on the right-hand side outside of Manson. Hamilton ALONE provides 3.07 GSVA as a RHD, the games above-replacement equivalent of not just a 1C, but an elite 1C.


I am not saying Hamilton wouldn't be good for them, or even that the value is off trade wise. I am saying that ANH won't move Zegras and the pieces you have going either way don't make sense for the Ducks.
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 39
#10
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ANA says thanks, they take Rossi Stutzle or Byfield with their pick, Khusnutdinov with their second, they're RD is fixed, and they have still two 1C potential prospects
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 39
#11
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Fowler had the best single game of any defenseman in the 2018-2019 season and has operated at a high level for most of the last two seasons. If we have to pay more for Hamilton than Fowler and a second, we're not interested.


Fowler has been very, very good, equivalent to a solid 1st-pairing option (0.97 GSVA) but he isn't close to as valuable as Hamilton is from a games above-replacement standpoint. Rakell adds another 1.41 GSVA to Carolina's direction, but those two combined still don't equal Hamilton's GSVA score by himself. This is why Zegras is included.
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 41
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Quoting: Random2152
So who exactly is going to play centre for them? Steel is good, but he projects more as a 2 or a high end 3C. Moving Zegras makes zero sense for them to do.




NOOOOOOOOOO IT IS NOT MY GOD. Hamilton should have won the Norris (had he been healthy). Fowler has been pedestrian for a few years (although recently had a small resurgence to be a solid #3 option)


Say they get Rossi and Khusnutdinov in the draft, they now have 2 1C potential prospects, and a Norris calibre RHD... For a now somewhat expendable Zegras, and a few meh pieces
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 41
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Fowler had the best single game of any defenseman in the 2018-2019 season and has operated at a high level for most of the last two seasons. If we have to pay more for Hamilton than Fowler and a second, we're not interested.


You're basing your opinion off of a single game?
Fowler has been playing at a #4-5 Dman level for a few years, and only recently snapped out of the funk (like 8 months ago). He has been one of those guys that people thought was really good but the Analytics showed his flaws and why he was only okay.
As I said though, he has been good again recently. That still doesn't get you anywhere near Hamilton who has been one of the best Dmen in the entire league recdntly.
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30 mars 2020 à 15 h 42
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Hamilton for Fowler and a second is about right.


Hamilton is a Norris calibre d man... Fowler is a slightly overpaid second pairing guy...
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 43
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Quoting: AFOX10900
Say they get Rossi and Khusnutdinov in the draft, they now have 2 1C potential prospects, and a Norris calibre RHD... For a now somewhat expendable Zegras, and a few meh pieces


I see no issue with having too many very good 1C prospects. You can always move them later when they have even higher value if you want to address other needs.
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 44
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Quoting: AFOX10900
Hamilton is a Norris calibre d man... Fowler is a slightly overpaid second pairing guy...


Fowler isn't overpaid at all at this time. He's played at a solid 1st pairing D level for this entire season. His deal is actually good value for what he provides. That still isn't close to Hamilton's value by himself.
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 47
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Quoting: Random2152
I see no issue with having too many very good 1C prospects. You can always move them later when they have even higher value if you want to address other needs.


You also don't get Norris calibre d men easily... There's 2 RD in the next 2-3 drafts that I can think of that have a reasonable chance at becoming even remotely close to Dougie (Drysdale and Clarke... Everyone else in 2021 is an LD lol) that's really why I'd consider doing this...
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30 mars 2020 à 15 h 50
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Quoting: AFOX10900
You also don't get Norris calibre d men easily... There's 2 RD in the next 2-3 drafts that I can think of that have a reasonable chance at becoming even remotely close to Dougie (Drysdale and Clarke... Everyone else in 2021 is an LD lol) that's really why I'd consider doing this...


I'm a true disciple of the give-to-get philosophy. Don't fall too much in love with prospects unless you have a really solid reason to do so, and go after players that can measurably improve your team, regardless of position.
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 51
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Quoting: Hockyluv21
Fowler isn't overpaid at all at this time. He's played at a solid 1st pairing D level for this entire season. His deal is actually good value for what he provides. That still isn't close to Hamilton's value by himself.


I'm not gonna argue about this year, good RAPM and whatnot would say he's a good number 3, low end number 2, but before this year, for the past 2-3 years, he's been like a good number 4-low end 3... And I will say, I'm assuming GSVA is is like Game score vs average (something with game score...?), And I would not recommend using game score, it leaves a ton of context out, it's kind of like the +/- of "advanced stats" ik it takes points into account very heavily which will always overrate Fowler (and his defensive... "Abilities"...)
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 52
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Quoting: AFOX10900
You also don't get Norris calibre d men easily... There's 2 RD in the next 2-3 drafts that I can think of that have a reasonable chance at becoming even remotely close to Dougie (Drysdale and Clarke... Everyone else in 2021 is an LD lol) that's really why I'd consider doing this...


Okay, but you can do it later and for cheaper. And plus Hamilton's prime doesn't exactly line up with the new Duck's core.
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 55
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Quoting: AFOX10900
I'm not gonna argue about this year, good RAPM and whatnot would say he's a good number 3, low end number 2, but before this year, for the past 2-3 years, he's been like a good number 4-low end 3... And I will say, I'm assuming GSVA is is like Game score vs average (something with game score...?), And I would not recommend using game score, it leaves a ton of context out, it's kind of like the +/- of "advanced stats" ik it takes points into account very heavily which will always overrate Fowler (and his defensive... "Abilities"...)


GSVA stands for game score value added. It's basically another metric that measures wins above replacement. It's important to note, BTW, that even though Fowler's no slouch, it's Rakell that actually adds the bulk of the trade package value here (1.41 GSVA at a bargain $3.8M cap hit). Even considering that, Rakell and Fowler's GSVA value combined STILL don't equal Hamilton's.
30 mars 2020 à 15 h 59
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Quoting: Random2152
Okay, but you can do it later and for cheaper. And plus Hamilton's prime doesn't exactly line up with the new Duck's core.


But how long do you want to wait... Kiviharju in 2024 lol (even tho he's an LD... You get my point)... Lindholm is 26-27, and we don't have an LD in the system close to replacing him (yes ik he's having a down year this year, still, nobody is gonna be what he was this year) we can't wait 3-4+ years to draft the RD of the future, and you're not gonna get a younger elite RD any cheaper... They just don't become available... and Hamilton is also around that age (27 I think, I could be wrong tho)... So he does fit with the older members of our core in Rakell and Lindholm (yes ik Rakell is overrated... I'd be very willing to move him, GMBM just isn't tho)
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30 mars 2020 à 16 h 1
#23
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Quoting: AFOX10900
But how long do you want to wait... Kiviharju in 2024 lol (even tho he's an LD... You get my point)... Lindholm is 26-27, and we don't have an LD in the system close to replacing him (yes ik he's having a down year this year, still, nobody is gonna be what he was this year) we can't wait 3-4+ years to draft the RD of the future, and you're not gonna get a younger elite RD any cheaper... They just don't become available... and Hamilton is also around that age (27 I think, I could be wrong tho)... So he does fit with the older members of our core in Rakell and Lindholm (yes ik Rakell is overrated... I'd be very willing to move him, GMBM just isn't tho)


Rakell is part of this trade package hahaha. I will point out, though, that Gibson and Hamilton's birthdates are about a month apart. Having a couple of veterans around their age range to supplement the kids at forward is not a bad way to run a team at all, ESPECIALLY if they are as good as Dougie is.
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30 mars 2020 à 16 h 2
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Quoting: Hockyluv21
GSVA stands for game score value added. It's basically another metric that measures wins above replacement. It's important to note, BTW, that even though Fowler's no slouch, it's Rakell that actually adds the bulk of the trade package value here (1.41 GSVA at a bargain $3.8M cap hit). Even considering that, Rakell and Fowler's GSVA value combined STILL don't equal Hamilton's.


Still don't like the use of game score, Rakell iirc was really good by GAR, but average by RAPM (so was Fowler in a three year sample) so you're trading two average players (one who's had a good year this year and who's value will never be as high, and the other who is good by GAR, but not RAPM his value never be higher) and Zegras... For a legit Norris level d man...
30 mars 2020 à 16 h 3
#25
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Quoting: Hockyluv21
Rakell is part of this trade package hahaha. I will point out, though, that Gibson and Hamilton's birthdates are about a month apart. Having a couple of veterans around their age range to supplement the kids at forward is not a bad way to run a team at all, ESPECIALLY if they are as good as Dougie is.


Did you add Rakell... I swear it was like Fowler+2nd+Zegras the first time I saw it lol
 
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