A Different Angle

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
25	81 500 000 $	70 739 186 $	0 $	7 797 500 $	10 760 814 $

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
Smith, Zack 3 250 000 $3 250 000 $ AG, C M-NTC UFA - 2	Toews, Jonathan 10 500 000 $10 500 000 $ C NMC UFA - 4	Kane, Patrick 2 625 000 $2 625 000 $ AD NMC UFA - 4
Caggiula, Drake 1 500 000 $1 500 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 1	Shaw, Andrew 3 900 000 $3 900 000 $ C, AD UFA - 3	Saad, Brandon 5 000 000 $5 000 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 2
Kubalik, Dominik 925 000 $925 000 $ (850 000 $$850K) AG, AD UFA - 1	Kämpf, David 1 000 000 $1 000 000 $ C UFA - 2	Carpenter, Ryan 1 000 000 $1 000 000 $ AD, C UFA - 3
DeBrincat, Alex 778 333 $778 333 $ (32 500 $$32K) AG, AD UFA - 1	Dach, Kirby 925 000 $925 000 $ (2 500 000 $$2M) C, AD RFA - 3	Nylander, Alexander 863 333 $863 333 $ (850 000 $$850K) AD, AG RFA - 2
	Strome, Dylan 863 333 $863 333 $ (2 475 000 $$2M) C UFA - 1
	Highmore, Matthew 775 833 $775 833 $ (107 500 $$108K) AG, AD UFA - 1

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Keith, Duncan 5 538 462 $5 538 462 $ DG NMC UFA - 4	Seabrook, Brent 6 875 000 $6 875 000 $ DD NMC UFA - 5	Crawford, Corey 6 000 000 $6 000 000 $ G M-NTC, NMC UFA - 1
De Haan, Calvin 4 550 000 $4 550 000 $ DG/DD UFA - 3	Murphy, Connor 3 850 000 $3 850 000 $ DD UFA - 3	Subban, Malcolm 850 000 $850 000 $ G UFA - 1
Määttä, Olli 3 333 225 $3 333 225 $ DG UFA - 3	Boqvist, Adam 894 167 $894 167 $ (850 000 $$850K) DD RFA - 3
Koekkoek, Slater 925 000 $925 000 $ DG/DD UFA - 1
Carlsson, Lucas 792 500 $792 500 $ (132 500 $$132K) DG RFA - 2
Seeler, Nick 725 000 $725 000 $ DG/DD UFA - 2

27 févr. 2020 à 14 h 37

#1

zk97

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I'm hungry from reading all that can someone sum it all up while I get a sandwich

27 févr. 2020 à 14 h 38

#2

HatterTParty

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Quoting: MaxDomi13

I'm hungry from reading all that can someone sum it all up while I get a sandwich

Are the hawks bad at developing talent? Lol

27 févr. 2020 à 14 h 39

#3

wojme

Rejoint: juin 2017

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Canadian Juniors is good at producing offensive minded players while the NCAA brings the defensive minded play.

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27 févr. 2020 à 14 h 39

#4

zk97

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Quoting: HatterTParty

Are the hawks bad at developing talent? Lol

Oh well I don't know and forgot to grab the sandwich

27 févr. 2020 à 14 h 44

#5

battadan

Rejoint: juin 2019

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interesting thought.

to start is was beaudin that wanted to go back to college. not so much up to the hawks

well it was vancouver that decided to take Quinn. if the hawks were at 7 they probably would of taken quinn too. maybe both teams knew the drop off from quinn to bo. it is almost comparable to dach vs turcotte. one was ready now, and one needs time, but might exceed the other. maybe quinn was ready now, but that doesnt mean bo cant develop into a better player in time.

i kinda agree with you though, most of the hawks pick have either nailed it right out of the gate, or not really turn into anything, then get traded. i hope the answer is no, but prehaps it is 60% yes.

27 févr. 2020 à 14 h 47

#6

Kyle_Davidson

Kyle from Chicago

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Its been a while since the Blackhawks produced a bonafide top 4 NHL defenseman, but there are many reasons why that could be the case. However, drafting D-men has not been a strong suit for them.

I think with boqer his problem is that he was rushed. I think he would have been best served by staying in the A all year. Next year the two would be better comparables, but still not perfect.

I think the Blackhawks thought (and I agree with this) that Dachs best development path was in the NHL year 1. I don't think they took him because he was closest to NHL ready.

They have produced good forwards though.

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27 févr. 2020 à 14 h 47

#7

HatterTParty

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Quoting: MaxDomi13

Oh well I don't know and forgot to grab the sandwich

Sounds good brooksy.

27 févr. 2020 à 14 h 51

#8

CFMan

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Dach should have been with the Blades and and Boqvist should have had a full season in Rockford. I also think that Collitons perimeter style of play is horrible and doesnt allow for a lot of defensive creativity unless its on the PP. I am a little worried about Boqvists development though.

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27 févr. 2020 à 14 h 53

#9

HatterTParty

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Quoting: battadan

interesting thought.

to start is was beaudin that wanted to go back to college. not so much up to the hawks

well it was vancouver that decided to take Quinn. if the hawks were at 7 they probably would of taken quinn too. maybe both teams knew the drop off from quinn to bo. it is almost comparable to dach vs turcotte. one was ready now, and one needs time, but might exceed the other. maybe quinn was ready now, but that doesnt mean bo cant develop into a better player in time.

i kinda agree with you though, most of the hawks pick have either nailed it right out of the gate, or not really turn into anything, then get traded. i hope the answer is no, but prehaps it is 60% yes.

I like the thoughts! I do agree that the hawks easily would have picked Hughes if he fell to 8. In fact, I believe if we got him, we’d still have jokiharju on the right side. I will admit, though, I sometimes feel that Colliton is a big hinderance on bo’s development into the player he was supposed to be. I hope he still becomes great, but in the current state of the hawks, nothing seems certain anymore.

27 févr. 2020 à 14 h 57

#10

HatterTParty

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Quoting: CFMan

Dach should have been with the Blades and and Boqvist should have had a full season in Rockford. I also think that Collitons perimeter style of play is horrible and doesnt allow for a lot of defensive creativity unless its on the PP. I am a little worried about Boqvists development though.

I gotta say, I really love blunt honesty like this. Well said. Everyone knows how I feel about Dach and that he should have had another year of development. As for boqvist, I’ll tie this in with colliton’s system. If we had a coach in charge that was less archaic and negative in terms of hockey systems, bo would probably be better off. He needs the chance to be creative at all times as well as make mistakes so he can learn. I will say I believe he needed a full year in the A though. It just sucks seeing Hughes be this much better so quickly.

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27 févr. 2020 à 15 h 6

#11

HatterTParty

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Quoting: Stan_Bowman

Its been a while since the Blackhawks produced a bonafide top 4 NHL defenseman, but there are many reasons why that could be the case. However, drafting D-men has not been a strong suit for them.

I think with boqer his problem is that he was rushed. I think he would have been best served by staying in the A all year. Next year the two would be better comparables, but still not perfect.

I think the Blackhawks thought (and I agree with this) that Dachs best development path was in the NHL year 1. I don't think they took him because he was closest to NHL ready.

They have produced good forwards though.

It is deeply concerning to me that boqvist was rushed the way he has been. But part of me also questions whether or not the hawks did right by boqvist by teaching and developing him the right way. What did they tell him while he was in London? Did they even want him to work on his defense? Cuz i never would have guessed back in 2018 that Hughes was THIS MUCH BETTER than boqvist.

As for Dach, I’ll never believe they didn’t take him cuz he was closet to ready. The second he was drafted, I think everyone in the organization knew he was always gonna be on the team immediately. This was very much a mistake for his Long term development to me. Learning to hang with nhlers is far different from excelling and outplaying nhlers. Hughes is a good example of that. Dach can hang, but he’s outplaying or dominating anyone. He needed time in juniors to get more consistent and actually dominate other players to gain confidence. Again, another reason I don’t think the hawks have done well developing.

Also, with the exception of debrincat, what forwards have we developed?

27 févr. 2020 à 15 h 10

#12

MadmanFromMadison

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Quoting: HatterTParty

Are the hawks bad at developing talent? Lol

Consistently a top team at producing/scouting undrafted NHL calibre players

OP calls them bad. ok lets just ignore Kubalik, Kahun, Lankinen, DeBrincat, Strome, Gustafsson, etc in terms of recently developed players within the last 2 years..

Vancouver also has no leash on Hughes in large part due to the fact their team lives and dies by him and Pettersson.

27 févr. 2020 à 15 h 11

#13

exo2769

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Modifié 27 févr. 2020 à 15 h 17

It's a good question, but 1 specific guy in VAN isn't the benchmark. He can't be the benchmark. No Calder winner or 2nd place vote getter can seriously be a real benchmark. That means everyone that doesn't meet the benchmark of one specific guy...would be failing... IE...if you're not Patrick Kane...you suck.

Also, what makes you think that VAN is actually good at developing their players??? Olli Juolevi...Jake Virtanen...That's a #5OA and #6OA that are either busts or WAY over drafted at this point. Kudos to Hughes. He's absolutely an offensive beast and VAN puts him in positions to succeed with defensive partners.

I think the Hawks strength is scouting and development. It's tough to judge development when they're only 19 years old. Those 2 players are still at the adolescence stages of their development....rookie years. I've said this many times...development takes time. It just does. I think you need to go back a little further for true development....AND...you need to ignore the trades. That'll be the hardest part. Stan's traded a bunch of those guys away. BUT this isn't talking about trades. Stan's also found a lot of diamonds in the rough. How many teams found a Kubalik? Stan's done it twice....Panarin. Kuba and Panarin were set up for success. That's a big part of development. Having guys like Toews/Kane that know they're better off when the team's winning...and the team wins when all the players get better collectively.

Even #1OA's take time to develop...Rasmus Dahlin, Jack Hughes, Nico Hirschier...none of those #1OAs are dominating the league right now. Proper development is a huge part and to me...the bad teams are AZ, EDM (Chia anyway), and NJD. Then it gets more subjective. I'd actually put VAN near the lower end of Development. Teams like TOR, BOS, TBL (Stevie Y anyway). They do a really good job.

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27 févr. 2020 à 15 h 12

#14

hockeyfan78

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I feel the problem really is with the coaching and no, I am not about to go on a rant about Colliton. However I am going to bring up something that I thought was pretty interesting over the summer. Before the Blackhawks Convention Seabrook revealed in an interview how he felt that every move he made the season prior was already scripted or played out for him. I don't know if anything has changed since then but if that is the case then that could be the case for why Boqvist isn't exactly exceeding our expectations. As you mentioned before "Hughes constantly looks like the cuffs are off and he’s allowed to express himself and make mistakes since he always seems to learn. Boqvist always looks like someone is either sitting on his back or whispering in his ear and he’s afraid to take chances." I also believe that Boqvist truly isn't NHL ready right now but just needs to develop a bit more. It seems they are trying to rush his development and so far it's not going so well. I like Boqvist and think he will be a top 2 defender in the future but not right now and personally not by working with this coach. I think for him to truly thrive he should have spent the entire season in the AHL and have much more freedom to make mistakes and learn from them so when he is finally brought up he could give Hughes and run for his money.

27 févr. 2020 à 15 h 16

#15

MadmanFromMadison

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Quoting: HatterTParty

It is deeply concerning to me that boqvist was rushed the way he has been. But part of me also questions whether or not the hawks did right by boqvist by teaching and developing him the right way. What did they tell him while he was in London? Did they even want him to work on his defense? Cuz i never would have guessed back in 2018 that Hughes was THIS MUCH BETTER than boqvist.

As for Dach, I’ll never believe they didn’t take him cuz he was closet to ready. The second he was drafted, I think everyone in the organization knew he was always gonna be on the team immediately. This was very much a mistake for his Long term development to me. Learning to hang with nhlers is far different from excelling and outplaying nhlers. Hughes is a good example of that. Dach can hang, but he’s outplaying or dominating anyone. He needed time in juniors to get more consistent and actually dominate other players to gain confidence. Again, another reason I don’t think the hawks have done well developing.

Also, with the exception of debrincat, what forwards have we developed?

Did you ever watch him in London? Boqvist was sent to Jr to learn the smaller ice and work on his defense which he did. Hughes and Boqvist are comparable defensively difference between the two is Hughes has more free reign in Vancouver since their team lives and dies by him and Pettersson carying them.

Dach bumslaying scrubs in juniors wasnt going to do anything for development. Points will come as long as he does everything else well which he has. Try actually watching the team instead of box score watching

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27 févr. 2020 à 15 h 18

#16

HatterTParty

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Quoting: MadmanFromMadison

Consistently a top team at producing/scouting undrafted NHL calibre players

OP calls them bad. ok lets just ignore Kubalik, Kahun, Lankinen, DeBrincat, Strome, Gustafsson, etc in terms of recently developed players within the last 2 years..

Vancouver also has no leash on Hughes in large part due to the fact their team lives and dies by him and Pettersson.

Okay let’s go down the list. The hawks have not, in any way, developed kubalik. He was developed in Europe. Kahun has made far more progress with the penguins and it was a massive mistake for them to trade him. Lankanen doesn’t even count yet cuz he hasn’t done anything in the nhl. Debrincat, of course that’s a good example. Strome? I mean, if you count just slapping him on a line with cat and Kane, sure. Gus? Gus is an anomaly to me cuz he was always offensively gifted. He just benefited from a fluke year when he actually played on an amazing PP, then regressed to his actual level this year.

Also, who’s OP? Or did I miss something?

Lastly, is there something wrong with the way the Canucks use Hughes and pettersson? Give them the freedom! That’s how players can learn! Let them make mistakes so they can learn from them.

27 févr. 2020 à 15 h 23

#17

exo2769

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Quoting: MadmanFromMadison

Did you ever watch him in London? Boqvist was sent to Jr to learn the smaller ice and work on his defense which he did. Hughes and Boqvist are comparable defensively difference between the two is Hughes has more free reign in Vancouver since their team lives and dies by him and Pettersson carying them.

Dach bumslaying scrubs in juniors wasnt going to do anything for development. Points will come as long as he does everything else well which he has. Try actually watching the team instead of box score watching

Hater is pretty knowledgeable despite me not agreeing with him all the time...or much at all to be honest. On Boqvist...I do feel like he defers too much. Maybe it's direction from JC or maybe it's just him being too cautious, but I also think the team as a whole defers to kane too much. Kane might have a great year, but when the opposing team knows...it's always going to one guy, it's easier to defend. They need scoring from all over. I hope Boqvist gets some more freedom now that they're essentially out of it. No reason to have handcuffs anymore!

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27 févr. 2020 à 15 h 23

#18

exo2769

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Quoting: HatterTParty

Okay let’s go down the list. The hawks have not, in any way, developed kubalik. He was developed in Europe. Kahun has made far more progress with the penguins and it was a massive mistake for them to trade him. Lankanen doesn’t even count yet cuz he hasn’t done anything in the nhl. Debrincat, of course that’s a good example. Strome? I mean, if you count just slapping him on a line with cat and Kane, sure. Gus? Gus is an anomaly to me cuz he was always offensively gifted. He just benefited from a fluke year when he actually played on an amazing PP, then regressed to his actual level this year.

Also, who’s OP? Or did I miss something?

Lastly, is there something wrong with the way the Canucks use Hughes and pettersson? Give them the freedom! That’s how players can learn! Let them make mistakes so they can learn from them.

i 100% disagree that the Hawks had no part in his development. Why would LAK trade him away for a 5th rounder if everyone knew he was going to lead all rookies in goals scored?

27 févr. 2020 à 15 h 26

#19

HatterTParty

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Quoting: MadmanFromMadison

Did you ever watch him in London? Boqvist was sent to Jr to learn the smaller ice and work on his defense which he did. Hughes and Boqvist are comparable defensively difference between the two is Hughes has more free reign in Vancouver since their team lives and dies by him and Pettersson carying them.

Dach bumslaying scrubs in juniors wasnt going to do anything for development. Points will come as long as he does everything else well which he has. Try actually watching the team instead of box score watching

Oh you madman. Lol, I don’t know if I’d say that boqvist actually improved or focused on his defense enough in London. If he did, then this season genuinely shows how unready he was nhl hockey. Or, rather, on a team coached by this bum Jeremy Colliton.

As for Dach, it’s absurd to think that wouldn’t be good for him to dominate juniors for a year. He could actually put on muscle for the love of god too! He could also work on his wrist shot. Being here only proves he can hang in the nhl, which is fine! But he still hasn’t learned consistency. As for the watching the game comment versus box score, dude, just shut up with that, lol. I’m not blind to what does, I just don’t like rushing development on players who supposedly future franchise players.

27 févr. 2020 à 15 h 29

#20

SlickWilly

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The thing with Hughes is he was ranked to go around 3rd or 4th OA, depending on Zadina's stock at the time. Then MTL fell in love with Kotkaniemi because they wanted a center, the Sens fell in love with Tkatchuk, and Hayton came out of nowhere. So then Detroit had their pick of forward or defenseman that was slated to go 3rd OA and they picked Zadina so Hughes fell even further. It was more so a factor of Hughes falling than Boqvist not living up to the hype

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27 févr. 2020 à 15 h 29

#21

HatterTParty

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Quoting: exo2769

i 100% disagree that the Hawks had no part in his development. Why would LAK trade him away for a 5th rounder if everyone knew he was going to lead all rookies in goals scored?

Oh believe me, that’s not in question! I agree with you there! However, that’s scouting right there. That was very good example of scouting. I don’t see the development aspect though. Kubalik came to the hawks ready with that talent in my opinion. He was sick last year!!! It’s kind of how I see panarin when he came to the hawks. Good scouting, but there wasn’t much development involved. Kubalik and panarin were both 24 and played a few years of pro already. They just don’t cross me as being true Blackhawks products.

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27 févr. 2020 à 15 h 30

#22

HatterTParty

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Quoting: SlickWilly

The thing with Hughes is he was ranked to go around 3rd or 4th OA, depending on Zadina's stock at the time. Then MTL fell in love with Kotkaniemi because they wanted a center, the Sens fell in love with Tkatchuk, and Hayton came out of nowhere. So then Detroit had their pick of forward or defenseman that was slated to go 3rd OA and they picked Zadina so Hughes fell even further. It was more so a factor of Hughes falling than Boqvist not living up to the hype

Hey, I never actually thought of that! That’s a great insight!

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27 févr. 2020 à 15 h 32

#23

exo2769

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Quoting: HatterTParty

Oh believe me, that’s not in question! I agree with you there! However, that’s scouting right there. That was very good example of scouting. I don’t see the development aspect though. Kubalik came to the hawks ready with that talent in my opinion. He was sick last year!!! It’s kind of how I see panarin when he came to the hawks. Good scouting, but there wasn’t much development involved. Kubalik and panarin were both 24 and played a few years of pro already. They just don’t cross me as being true Blackhawks products.

it's a fair take. 100% agreed that they didn't draft these guys. You still need to insert rookies into proper places in order for them to have success. Dylan Strome in AZ...Dylan Strome right now on the wing??? Hmm.... Not sure that's a pro for Stanley....I'm citing both pros and cons here!

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27 févr. 2020 à 15 h 32

#24

HatterTParty

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Quoting: exo2769

Hater is pretty knowledgeable despite me not agreeing with him all the time...or much at all to be honest. On Boqvist...I do feel like he defers too much. Maybe it's direction from JC or maybe it's just him being too cautious, but I also think the team as a whole defers to kane too much. Kane might have a great year, but when the opposing team knows...it's always going to one guy, it's easier to defend. They need scoring from all over. I hope Boqvist gets some more freedom now that they're essentially out of it. No reason to have handcuffs anymore!

Well said! No need for handcuffs when you have nothing to lose. Boqvist can only go up, but I’m getting deeply concerned for him if Colliton keeps on stopping boqvist from expressing himself offensively. Isn’t that what we drafted boqvist for?

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27 févr. 2020 à 15 h 36

#25

HatterTParty

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Quoting: exo2769

it's a fair take. 100% agreed that they didn't draft these guys. You still need to insert rookies into proper places in order for them to have success. Dylan Strome in AZ...Dylan Strome right now on the wing??? Hmm.... Not sure that's a pro for Stanley.

I agree they need to be inserted in the right places. In that regard panarin was spot on from the start. Also, I think having Q as his coach was a HUGE plus. As for kubalik, it took maybe a month or two, but when he settled in, he took off. Strome is the type of player that needs to stay at center though. You’re right, not a pro for stanley and an even worse look for Colliton.

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