Forums/Armchair-GM

Per The Lazerus Interview

Créé par: HatterTParty
Date de création initiale: fév 26, 2020
Publié: 26 fév à 19 h 29
Équipe: 2019-20 Blackhawks de Chicago
Explications
I’m gonna apologize off the bat because this is probably the third AGM I’ve made in the same vein in the last week or so.

I’m making this one based on Kane’s comments in an in the athletic to mark lazerus. In it, he stated he wasn’t sure if he’d be willing to compete again by waiting through a rebuild. If Keith were moved, he’d be willing to leave as well. I do wonder if toews would choose to move as well. In this case, I’ll treat it as such.

Be civil and just make it clear why a trade wouldn’t happen.
Transactions
CHI
  1. Miller, K'Andre [Liste de réserve]
  2. 2021 2e round pick (NYR)
  3. 2020 1e round pick (CAR)
NYR
  1. Kane, Patrick (4 000 000 $ retained)
Détails additionnels:
Reuniting Kane with panarin on Broadway would be amazing. The rangers have made it clear now too that their rebuild is officially over. I completely understand if people think I’m overvaluing Kane, but I hope that’s not the case with how good he still is.
CHI
  1. Noel, Serron
  2. 2021 2e round pick (FLA)
Détails additionnels:
Conditional pick: if the panthers make the playoffs in 2021 OR Keith plays at least 70 games, hawks receive the panthers 2021 1st round pick.
FLA
  1. Keith, Duncan (1 500 000 $ retained)
Détails additionnels:
Keith has proven this year that he can still play. Q still loves him too.
CHI
  1. Poulin, Samuel
  2. Bjugstad, Nick
  3. 2021 1e round pick (PIT)
Détails additionnels:
Bjugstad serves as a cap dump of shorts. Pittsburgh is definitely trying to squeeze as much out of Crosby and malkin as they can. A 1-2-3 of them and toews would be one hell of a center core.
PIT
  1. Toews, Jonathan (4 000 000 $ retained)
Détails additionnels:
Toews certainly isn’t worth what Kane is. However, at 4 M retained, I do think they could get at least a decent return.
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Patrick Kane: 4 000 000 $ (38,1%)
  • Duncan Keith: 1 500 000 $ (27,08%)
  • Jonathan Toews: 4 000 000 $ (38,1%)
  • Brandon Saad: 1 000 000 $ (17%)
  • Olli Määttä: 750 108 $ (18%)
  • Robin Lehner: 2 500 000 $ (50%)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2020
CHI
CAR
PIT
CHI
CGY
CHI
CHI
CHI
2021
CHI
PIT
CHI
NYR
FLA
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
MTL
2022
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2581 500 000 $67 225 831 $0 $7 797 500 $14 274 169 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
CHI
DeBrincat, Alex
778 333 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
CHI
Strome, Dylan
863 333 $
C
RFA - 1
CHI
Saad, Brandon
5 000 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 2
CHI
Kubalik, Dominik
925 000 $
AG
RFA - 1
CHI
Dach, Kirby
925 000 $
C, AD
RFA - 3
CHI
Nylander, Alexander
863 333 $
AD, AG
RFA - 2
PIT
Poulin, Samuel
925 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 4
PIT
Bjugstad, Nick
2 050 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 2
FLA
Noel, Serron
925 000 $
AD
RFA - 4
CHI
Caggiula, Drake
1 500 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
CHI
Kämpf, David
1 000 000 $
C, AD
RFA - 2
CHI
Carpenter, Ryan
1 000 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 3
CHI
Smith, Zack
3 250 000 $
AG, C
NTC
UFA - 2
CHI
Highmore, Matthew
775 833 $
AD
RFA - 1
CHI
Shaw, Andrew
3 900 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 3
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
CHI
Määttä, Olli
3 333 225 $
DG
UFA - 3
CHI
Boqvist, Adam
894 167 $
DD
RFA - 3
CHI
Crawford, Corey
6 000 000 $
G
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
CHI
Koekkoek, Slater
925 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
CHI
Murphy, Connor
3 850 000 $
DD
UFA - 3
CHI
Subban, Malcolm
850 000 $
G
UFA - 1
CHI
Seeler, Nick
725 000 $
DG
UFA - 2
CHI
Carlsson, Lucas
792 500 $
DG
RFA - 2
CHI
De Haan, Calvin
4 550 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 3
CHI
Seabrook, Brent
6 875 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 5

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26 fév à 19 h 45
#1
NoPlanStan
Rejoint: fév 2018
Messages: 5,421
Mentions "j'aime": 2,489
Kane is still elite and is showing no signs of slowing down. I don’t see the value in it for Chicago, they lose a player that singlehandedly sells tickets, and they don’t get anything to replace that, or anything that could realistically come close to that. Depending on where we pick in the draft, and how smart we are with our trades, our rebuild could be quickly accelerated like the NYR rebuild. I think Kane would want to see that through.

I don’t see Toews as an ideal destination for PIT because he will absolutely not play 3rd line center on any team while he has his good years left. The return is again kinda Meh, and I think we could do better with a team that needs centers.

Keith trade is fine, and I think he would be the most willing to move of the three. As long as we don’t take back Matheson in the trade we are gold.
26 fév à 19 h 47
#2
Isles777
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 7,392
Mentions "j'aime": 2,833
damn if Kane was available, Lou would definitely be in on that. I'm pretty sure barzal is one of Kanes favorite players , maybe he would waive to come play with him. it would cost wahlstrom, wilde, 1st and two 2nds IMO.
26 fév à 19 h 53
#3
NoPlanStan
Rejoint: fév 2018
Messages: 5,421
Mentions "j'aime": 2,489
Quoting: Isles777
damn if Kane was available, Lou would definitely be in on that. I'm pretty sure barzal is one of Kanes favorite players , maybe he would waive to come play with him. it would cost wahlstrom, wilde, 1st and two 2nds IMO.


I think you know in your heart of hearts it starts with Dobson.
26 fév à 19 h 54
#4
Isles777
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 7,392
Mentions "j'aime": 2,833
Quoting: Stan_Bowman
I think you know in your heart of hearts it starts with Dobson.


I was just doing my best attempt at a realistic bowman trade
Jco5ta5 a aimé ceci.
26 fév à 19 h 57
#5
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 1,706
Mentions "j'aime": 604
Quoting: Stan_Bowman
Kane is still elite and is showing no signs of slowing down. I don’t see the value in it for Chicago, they lose a player that singlehandedly sells tickets, and they don’t get anything to replace that, or anything that could realistically come close to that. Depending on where we pick in the draft, and how smart we are with our trades, our rebuild could be quickly accelerated like the NYR rebuild. I think Kane would want to see that through.

I don’t see Toews as an ideal destination for PIT because he will absolutely not play 3rd line center on any team while he has his good years left. The return is again kinda Meh, and I think we could do better with a team that needs centers.

Keith trade is fine, and I think he would be the most willing to move of the three. As long as we don’t take back Matheson in the trade we are gold.


Like the input! Agree with the Keith assessment and the more I think about toews, I do agree he would wanna be a top two center anywhere he’s goes.

As for Kane, while I do agree with you idea of his value, where I don’t agree is the rebuild idea. NYR had significantly different circumstances surrounding their rebuild and didn’t have (in my opinion) the kind of cap problems we have. Our issues revolve around our best players being an anchor because of their deals. However, it is made easier by drafting smart, and again, that’s where I believe the hawks fail. We haven’t had enough of an impact from our prospects in recent years (cat aside) to depend on just one 1st round pick. This scouting and management has constantly shown that this is becoming a growing problem. I do agree, again, that drafting smart fixes everything. But the hawks don’t have a good track record of that, and on top of it, their development team has been very, very bad at getting players nhl ready.
26 fév à 19 h 58
#6
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 1,706
Mentions "j'aime": 604
Quoting: Isles777
I was just doing my best attempt at a realistic bowman trade


Quoting: Stan_Bowman
I think you know in your heart of hearts it starts with Dobson.


With bowman in charge, I agree that isles777’s first offer would happen. But I do agree that it should start with Dobson. That being said, I wouldn’t hate wahlstrom, Wilde, a 1st and a 2nd
Isles777 a aimé ceci.
26 fév à 20 h 00
#7
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 3,096
Mentions "j'aime": 1,222
The return on kane is underwhelming and I don't think that retaining all that money is in the best interest of the team. Especially on Kane, I don't think we need to retain to move him and no way we need to retain close to 40% of Toew's deal to move him. I do agree that this team needs a rebuild but we could get more for Kane and Toews and save more money while doing so. You only move Franchise level pieces is the return is right I don't want to make a move just to make a move. The Kieth deal is good.
Jco5ta5 a aimé ceci.
26 fév à 20 h 01
#8
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 1,706
Mentions "j'aime": 604
Quoting: Wadejos123
The return on kane is underwhelming and I don't think that retaining all that money is in the best interest of the team. Especially on Kane, I don't think we need to retain to move him and no way we need to retain close to 40% of Toew's deal to move him. I do agree that this team needs a rebuild but we could get more for Kane and Toews and save more money while doing so. You only move Franchise level pieces is the return is right I don't want to make a move just to make a move. The Kieth deal is good.


Ya see, that’s what I thought as well, but the voice in my head kept telling me that contending teams just don’t have cap space to take on 10.5 M a piece. Plus, retention generally helps get more return.
26 fév à 20 h 08
#9
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 3,096
Mentions "j'aime": 1,222
I think that non-contneders would still have interest as well. Kane still has many years of playing at a high high level left in him. He's not a 1-2 year rental by any means. Middle of the pack teams would deffintly still have intrest. Of course, Kane would have to waive to go wherever we send him
HatterTParty a aimé ceci.
26 fév à 20 h 20
#10
Let'sGoBlues | WPGv4
Rejoint: jun 2016
Messages: 5,651
Mentions "j'aime": 3,512
Seems like too many years to retain that much money. The rebuild already has some good pieces, what if it's accelerated and there is 9.5m or more in dead money?
26 fév à 22 h 18
#11
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 1,706
Mentions "j'aime": 604
Quoting: Wadejos123
I think that non-contneders would still have interest as well. Kane still has many years of playing at a high high level left in him. He's not a 1-2 year rental by any means. Middle of the pack teams would deffintly still have intrest. Of course, Kane would have to waive to go wherever we send him


That’s where I think the difference is made. You said it perfectly, he would have to waive, and I genuinely think it would only happen for a true contender.
26 fév à 22 h 23
#12
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 1,706
Mentions "j'aime": 604
Quoting: A_K
Seems like too many years to retain that much money. The rebuild already has some good pieces, what if it's accelerated and there is 9.5m or more in dead money?


That is a good thought. The only way I would respond is that having seabrook around, even if he’s playing, still constitutes almost 7 M in dead money. Suffice to say he just doesn’t belong in the modern nhl anymore. As for the rebuild having good pieces already, I do think it does on offense. My problem is the lack of hard nosed, but also puck moving defensive dmen. We haven’t had that since hammer and oduya left. Mix that in with the unclear direction of goaltending, and I’m sure where the team is heading.

As a personal criticism of this team, they just don’t battle and put in 100% effort the way they used to. That’s half the battle. They could be oozing talent and show no effort and that negates everything. Toronto anyone?
27 fév à 5 h 30
#13
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 1,245
Mentions "j'aime": 478
Can you please link the article you are talking about?
27 fév à 10 h 39
#14
Hawks Fan
Rejoint: jui 2019
Messages: 817
Mentions "j'aime": 257
Modifié 27 fév à 12 h 25
Quoting: HatterTParty
Like the input! Agree with the Keith assessment and the more I think about toews, I do agree he would wanna be a top two center anywhere he’s goes.

As for Kane, while I do agree with you idea of his value, where I don’t agree is the rebuild idea. NYR had significantly different circumstances surrounding their rebuild and didn’t have (in my opinion) the kind of cap problems we have. Our issues revolve around our best players being an anchor because of their deals. However, it is made easier by drafting smart, and again, that’s where I believe the hawks fail. We haven’t had enough of an impact from our prospects in recent years (cat aside) to depend on just one 1st round pick. This scouting and management has constantly shown that this is becoming a growing problem. I do agree, again, that drafting smart fixes everything. But the hawks don’t have a good track record of that, and on top of it, their development team has been very, very bad at getting players nhl ready.


I’m not so sure that scouting and drafting is a big issue. The issue is Bowman trades them all. There was a post yesterday titled “if Chicago kept all their draft picks”. That team was fricken loaded. Dach was the 4C.

Since Patrick Kane was drafted our first round picks were...
2008: Kyle Beach - never played in NHL. Only Ben Smith from that draft played in NHL.
2009: Dylan Olsen - played total 124 games. Played most in Florida. (Notable from same draft: Pirri, Kruger)
2010: Kevin Hayes - refused to sign with Hawks. Traded rights away. (Notable: Johns, Nordstrom)
2011: Mark McNeill - played 2 whole games. Danault - traded to Montreal in 2016. (notable: clendening, Saad, Shaw, dahlbeck)
2012: teravainen - traded with Bickell to CAR to unload contract. (Notable: hinostroza)
2013: Hartman - traded (though that trade was a win for Bowman). (Notable: Dahlstrom, hayden, motte)
2014: Schmaltz - traded to ARI (possible win in the trade) (notable: Sikura)
2015: no 1st round pick. Only player to play NHL games is Gilbert.
2016: no 1st round pick. Notable: Debrincat
2017: Jokiharju - traded for Nylander. (Notable: Mitchell, Barratt)
2018: Boqvist - has played 36 games. (Notable: beaudin, kurashev, hakkarainen)
2019: Dach - has played 57 games. (Notable: Vlasic, teply)

Bowman has gutted this team of its farm system or never kept anyone around long enough to develop them and now it’s no surprise the only prospects coming up are bottom 6 and bottom 2 players with exception to Mitchell who should be top 4. Couple that with the two straight years of no first round picks and it really puts things into perspective.
HatterTParty a aimé ceci.
 
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