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Time for a clean slate

Créé par: HatterTParty
Équipe: 2019-20 Blackhawks de Chicago
Date de création initiale: 24 févr. 2020
Publié: 24 févr. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Bowman is a bum and should be finished. I think, judging by twitter and most users on this site, were ready for that full rebuild. No one is safe.
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CHI
  1. Eakin, Cody
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OTT
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  2. Lehner, Robin
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24 févr. 2020 à 18 h 17
#1
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tears of joy tears of joy that Sens trade
24 févr. 2020 à 18 h 24
#2
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Quoting: Claesson4Norris
tears of joy tears of joy that Sens trade


Sad thing is I have no idea who you think it’s bad for.
24 févr. 2020 à 18 h 28
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Kane won't waive to go anywhere and that's fine; he's a stud and you need his cap hit to make the cap floor requirement.

Rebuild but then you trade Dach...makes zero sense.
24 févr. 2020 à 18 h 30
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Sad thing is I have no idea who you think it’s bad for.


The Sens. Two great C prospects and a lottery pick for Dach and a Goalie who would never come back to Ottawa in a million years
24 févr. 2020 à 18 h 32
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Quoting: Claesson4Norris
The Sens. Two great C prospects and a lottery pick for Dach and a Goalie who would never come back to Ottawa in a million years


Wow! I did not see that coming.
24 févr. 2020 à 18 h 35
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Quoting: Claesson4Norris
The Sens. Two great C prospects and a lottery pick for Dach and a Goalie who would never come back to Ottawa in a million years


Quoting: exo2769
Wow! I did not see that coming.


Lol, not gonna lie, actually enjoyed that response. 🤣
24 févr. 2020 à 18 h 38
#7
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Kane won't waive to go anywhere and that's fine; he's a stud and you need his cap hit to make the cap floor requirement.

Rebuild but then you trade Dach...makes zero sense.


Cuz Dach isn’t the guy that wins a cup. I’m biased against him, I know, but I don’t see what everyone sees yet. Then again, I genuinely believe hawks fans are just nit picking things to love about him just so picking him is justified. If a good enough offer came for Dach, see you the hell later.

To be clear, I’m so freakin triggered right now that I would really love to rid this team of anything attached to bowman.
24 févr. 2020 à 18 h 46
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Quoting: exo2769
Wow! I did not see that coming.


Josh Norris is having one of the best AHL rookie seasons in like 15 years. And I would take anyone in the top 5 of this draft over Dach.
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24 févr. 2020 à 19 h 0
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Quoting: Claesson4Norris
Josh Norris is having one of the best AHL rookie seasons in like 15 years. And I would take anyone in the top 5 of this draft over Dach.


Top 3 for sure, top 4 I get, top 5 I'm not so sure, and beyond the top 5 probably not.
24 févr. 2020 à 19 h 3
#10
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Quoting: Claesson4Norris
Josh Norris is having one of the best AHL rookie seasons in like 15 years. And I would take anyone in the top 5 of this draft over Dach.


Dach is currently playing better than either Jack or KK. You can project out into the future and that's all good, but VERY hard to say he hasn't played the best out of those 3. It's actually pretty clear so far.
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24 févr. 2020 à 19 h 36
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Quoting: Claesson4Norris
Josh Norris is having one of the best AHL rookie seasons in like 15 years. And I would take anyone in the top 5 of this draft over Dach.


God damn. You and I could be best friends.
24 févr. 2020 à 19 h 38
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Quoting: exo2769
Dach is currently playing better than either Jack or KK. You can project out into the future and that's all good, but VERY hard to say he hasn't played the best out of those 3. It's actually pretty clear so far.


Hughes and Kakko have been outright bad. Not really an accomplishment.

Not saying Dach is bad. But Ottawa is giving up far more value than Dach brings.
24 févr. 2020 à 19 h 38
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Quoting: exo2769
Dach is currently playing better than either Jack or KK. You can project out into the future and that's all good, but VERY hard to say he hasn't played the best out of those 3. It's actually pretty clear so far.


Quoting: ChiHawk
Top 3 for sure, top 4 I get, top 5 I'm not so sure, and beyond the top 5 probably not.


Just remember exo, all three suck this year, so saying one is better than the other two is worth absolutely zero and you know that.

ChiHawk, I gotta be honest, newhook, caufield, and zegras are all looking to be better than the top 3 and possibly top 5.
24 févr. 2020 à 20 h 31
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@HatterTParty @Claesson4Norris you guys dont appreciate how difficult it is for an 18 year old kid to play successfully in the NHL. I mean Nico, Dahlin, Hughes....its hard. Dach's been really good.
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24 févr. 2020 à 20 h 46
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Just remember exo, all three suck this year, so saying one is better than the other two is worth absolutely zero and you know that.

ChiHawk, I gotta be honest, newhook, caufield, and zegras are all looking to be better than the top 3 and possibly top 5.


You're on drugs...they are playing college at a point per game rate, that's two....not one....two steps down from the NHL. They wouldn't be a ppg in the AHL and not even close in the NHL. None of those guys will be better then Alexis...that's just insane talk.
24 févr. 2020 à 20 h 54
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Quoting: exo2769
@HatterTParty @Claesson4Norris you guys dont appreciate how difficult it is for an 18 year old kid to play successfully in the NHL. I mean Nico, Dahlin, Hughes....its hard. Dach's been really good.


Exo, nobody is doubting that whatsoever. That’s not the knock on him either. The knock on him has a few things to it.

Number one, his ceiling is lowest of the top 5. That may be subjective, but it’s hard to argue that every one of the top 5 minus byram (a dman), has higher offensive upside. Furthermore, at least in turcotte’s case, he has some impressive two way skills too. Dach might have that on lock.

Number two, Dach had no business being in the nhl this season. I won’t accept any justification some has of him being here. No more “he’s as good as kakko and Hughes.” That doesn’t prove a thing. He should have been back in the whl learning consistency and how to become a better offensive player, cuz that offensive side of his game is lacking in my opinion. Now, it’s not his fault that he is playing in the nhl this season. However, it does suck to see this top 3 trio suck this bad rookie wise.

Number three, and this burns me to this day, this was about “now” as opposed to “future.” This pick well and truly smelled of fixing now, and worrying less about the future. Go for the lower ceiling as long as he can play now? Nope, that’s not what the draft is for! We passed on some good talent, and anyone who tells Dach was best available (which is what you pick at number 3), I’m sorry but that’s just false. Sure, time will tell all, but the time that’s already gone by ain’t impressive by any stretch.
24 févr. 2020 à 20 h 59
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Quoting: ChiHawk
You're on drugs...they are playing college at a point per game rate, that's two....not one....two steps down from the NHL. They wouldn't be a ppg in the AHL and not even close in the NHL. None of those guys will be better then Alexis...that's just insane talk.


Alright, alright, ChiHawk, I gotta ask dude, how in the world do look down on the NCAA so much? Lol, I’m genuinely asking. Your saying a league full of 15-20 year olds who only care about offense and less physicality is that much better than college hockey? Where it’s ONLY 18 years and up? Where 18 year old kids sometimes play 21-23 year old adults who all love physical, defensive hockey? I’m just curious buddy. Cuz that logic doesn’t really fly.

Quick side note: who’s comparing them to Alexis? I’m certainly not.
24 févr. 2020 à 21 h 21
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Quoting: exo2769
@HatterTParty @Claesson4Norris you guys dont appreciate how difficult it is for an 18 year old kid to play successfully in the NHL. I mean Nico, Dahlin, Hughes....its hard. Dach's been really good.


It is hard to play as an 18 year old. Which is why players who aren't ready shouldn't play in the NHL. All three of those kids have been struggling to keep their heads above water. They should be playing somewhere they could dominate.
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24 févr. 2020 à 22 h 3
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Quoting: Claesson4Norris
It is hard to play as an 18 year old. Which is why players who aren't ready shouldn't play in the NHL. All three of those kids have been struggling to keep their heads above water. They should be playing somewhere they could dominate.


This is 100% fair to say. Jesperi is another example. I just really do think Dach has grown leaps and bounds since day 1. I really do think if we redrafted today NJ would have drafted him. I clearly can see Jack's vision and playmaking. It's going to take him many more years to fully grow. Dach has proven (to me...not @HatterTParty ) that he can handle his own both skill and durability.
24 févr. 2020 à 22 h 11
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Quoting: exo2769
This is 100% fair to say. Jesperi is another example. I just really do think Dach has grown leaps and bounds since day 1. I really do think if we redrafted today NJ would have drafted him. I clearly can see Jack's vision and playmaking. It's going to take him many more years to fully grow. Dach has proven (to me...not @HatterTParty ) that he can handle his own both skill and durability.


That's ridiculous. The ceiling on Hughes is still miles ahead of Dach. Even if Dach matures quicker, Hughes will still be a much better player.

I like Dach a lot, but I still don't agree with that pick at number 3. I still think Cozens was the better option.
24 févr. 2020 à 22 h 27
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Quoting: Claesson4Norris
That's ridiculous. The ceiling on Hughes is still miles ahead of Dach. Even if Dach matures quicker, Hughes will still be a much better player.

I like Dach a lot, but I still don't agree with that pick at number 3. I still think Cozens was the better option.


Ehh, I do like cozens, however, I still have to take one of turcotte, byram, zegras, or even caufield or newhook. Contrary to what some may think, the NCAA is one of the best and most competitive places for prospects to grow.

As for NJ, Hughes would easily still be number 1, and kakko is hard to take out of number 2. Dach may look okay so far, but he hasn’t proven nearly enough to displace those two. I still maintain that dach’s ceiling is the lowest of the top 5. His offensive struggles in both juniors and the nhl prove that a bit.
25 févr. 2020 à 0 h 36
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Alright, alright, ChiHawk, I gotta ask dude, how in the world do look down on the NCAA so much? Lol, I’m genuinely asking. Your saying a league full of 15-20 year olds who only care about offense and less physicality is that much better than college hockey? Where it’s ONLY 18 years and up? Where 18 year old kids sometimes play 21-23 year old adults who all love physical, defensive hockey? I’m just curious buddy. Cuz that logic doesn’t really fly.

Quick side note: who’s comparing them to Alexis? I’m certainly not.


Hatter; do some research. How many kids come out of the NCAA and end up playing NHL hockey? You do realize there is a pretty small minority of players that play Div 1 NCAA hockey prior to the pros right? And i know this first hand.
25 févr. 2020 à 7 h 33
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Quoting: Claesson4Norris
That's ridiculous. The ceiling on Hughes is still miles ahead of Dach. Even if Dach matures quicker, Hughes will still be a much better player.

I like Dach a lot, but I still don't agree with that pick at number 3. I still think Cozens was the better option.


Like I said....projecting the future is all good. We'll also continue to reassess every player as time goes on. Every single player in every league gets re-evaluated. The "Look Backs" occur almost immediately and they'll go on for eternity. Nail Yakupov is one of the biggest busts ever. As of right now....No one can legitimately say that either Jack or KK are having a better year. That's like saying The KHL is better than the NHL. You say higher ceiling...ok maybe. I see Jack's talent for sure. I worry about his development in NJ if we're truly being honest here. 63% Ozone starts and a minus 22.... Same for KK, but KK has the best team out of the 3. Dach's 5V5 scoring and defense is crushing the comparison.
25 févr. 2020 à 7 h 43
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Exo, nobody is doubting that whatsoever. That’s not the knock on him either. The knock on him has a few things to it.

Number one, his ceiling is lowest of the top 5. That may be subjective, but it’s hard to argue that every one of the top 5 minus byram (a dman), has higher offensive upside. Furthermore, at least in turcotte’s case, he has some impressive two way skills too. Dach might have that on lock.

Number two, Dach had no business being in the nhl this season. I won’t accept any justification some has of him being here. No more “he’s as good as kakko and Hughes.” That doesn’t prove a thing. He should have been back in the whl learning consistency and how to become a better offensive player, cuz that offensive side of his game is lacking in my opinion. Now, it’s not his fault that he is playing in the nhl this season. However, it does suck to see this top 3 trio suck this bad rookie wise.

Number three, and this burns me to this day, this was about “now” as opposed to “future.” This pick well and truly smelled of fixing now, and worrying less about the future. Go for the lower ceiling as long as he can play now? Nope, that’s not what the draft is for! We passed on some good talent, and anyone who tells Dach was best available (which is what you pick at number 3), I’m sorry but that’s just false. Sure, time will tell all, but the time that’s already gone by ain’t impressive by any stretch.


You know better than anyone that I was Byram guy at the draft. I honestly don't know if he'd be a top 10 pick if we redrafted today. I'll admit that Byram's bounced back in the second half of the season, but he was looking AWFUL for half the year. Also more importantly...Moritz...dang. The AHL >>> WHL too. A CLEAR DROP FROM THE NHL, but 20 points in 46 games against grown men. He's 100% better than Byram. I hate to admit that since it's DET, but it's true.

I understand you won't accept Dach being in the NHL. I won't try because it's wasted effort. I'm happy to see him out there. He's FLYING around now. It's EXACTLY what I said was going to happen. He's finally picking up the pace of the game and he's playing center. I'm very happy with his progress this year because 5V5 hockey is the key for a guy that young. Keep getting him ~17 min a game. Teach him the off ice stuff. Get him into the gym and mean. Right now his ceiling doesn't have a limit. Next year will be key for him.
25 févr. 2020 à 12 h 34
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Quoting: exo2769
You know better than anyone that I was Byram guy at the draft. I honestly don't know if he'd be a top 10 pick if we redrafted today. I'll admit that Byram's bounced back in the second half of the season, but he was looking AWFUL for half the year. Also more importantly...Moritz...dang. The AHL >>> WHL too. A CLEAR DROP FROM THE NHL, but 20 points in 46 games against grown men. He's 100% better than Byram. I hate to admit that since it's DET, but it's true.

I understand you won't accept Dach being in the NHL. I won't try because it's wasted effort. I'm happy to see him out there. He's FLYING around now. It's EXACTLY what I said was going to happen. He's finally picking up the pace of the game and he's playing center. I'm very happy with his progress this year because 5V5 hockey is the key for a guy that young. Keep getting him ~17 min a game. Teach him the off ice stuff. Get him into the gym and mean. Right now his ceiling doesn't have a limit. Next year will be key for him.


All I want from Dach to prove he can actually contribute consistently on offense. Cuz he wasn’t picked for his defensive exclusively. Forechecking and back checking are great attributes to have. However, they are attributes every 4th line grinder has. You like to say KK plays for the best team, but don’t think for one second he plays with the better players. Dach gets all the strome, cat, and Kane he wants. Supposedly he was a playmaker when we drafted him, and while there are signs of that, he hasn’t done enough with the players he has the fortune to play with. I actually came to realization that Dach reminds me of a right handed Jordan Staal. Good defensively, could score hopefully 40-50 points a year at his peak. At 3rd vs Staal at 2nd, that’s not bad right? Honestly, at this point I’d take that for sure.

Also, and this doesn’t get brought up enough, this kid has to learn how to shoot. I see it in practice every day, and I even saw it a charity function when he complained and made a scene because he couldn’t get his slap shot over 87 mph. He has yet to actually score a goal on a true wrist shot too.

Either way, these comparisons to Hughes and KK just keep making all three look like bums at this point. I have to keep an eye on these three as part of my job and it hasn’t been a good first look for the 2019 draft. Congrats to all three for being here now, but that doesn’t mean they should have been. None of them have lived up to the offensive attributes they showed pre draft (although I did say Hughes would have trouble adjusting). Seider vs byram is a conversation even more about biases than dach. Hawks fans are the only ones who try to justify Dach by saying byram has been bad. Byram hasn’t been bad, he’s been learning. Sakic gave him an assignment when he went back to the whl, and he’s doing it. Everyone in the Avs organization I know tells me this every week. Good news is, we will see in April cuz he’s definitely coming up when the junior season is over. Seider is a stud, but did anyone really question that?! Stevie Y picked him! Stevie Y is a genius.

If this draft were done over, the only things that would change would be the 3-5 possibly being different and caufield and newhook getting higher.
 
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