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(NJD/TBL) - Coleman for Foote and 2020 1st round pick

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16 févr. 2020 à 20 h 50
#26
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1st of all NJD did great here and TB paid a lot for Coleman

But this has the same kind of vibe when I tried defending the Tanev signing and saying how great of a player he was??

If Im a TB fan - Im thinking who cares, this is kind of player u need on a Cup team.
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16 févr. 2020 à 20 h 51
#27
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I think that's too much to give up for Coleman. A 1st and a top prospect for a rental 2nd/3rd liner. I would have expected a 2nd+3rd.
16 févr. 2020 à 20 h 53
#28
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Not only is Coleman a fit for a checking line, he can score offensively and is defensively sound. How many players are under contract for under 2M for next season and are available in a trade?


His goal scoring exploded when he started getting 17 minutes a night.... he's not getting that kind of TOI with TBL.
16 févr. 2020 à 20 h 57
#29
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I don't think anyone would argue Coleman isn't a good player. Maybe even exactly the type of player TB needs right now. I just don't understand how you can justify this price. Frankly its unjustifiable. If this was the price for Coleman, they should have found the next closest thing and paid probably less than half as much while still getting a decent enough player to fill the void they wanted Coleman to fill.

I hear a lot of "Well If Tampa wins, it'll be a good trade". I disagree. Not only was the pick they gave, NOT even Tampa's 1st, I expect Coleman will have play an integral part in TB winning the cup for it to be justified. Like almost winning the Conn Smyth type of involvement. Then, I think you can say that it was a good trade for TB....... When there are that many personal conditions needed to be justified, maybe you should rethink your strategy.
16 févr. 2020 à 20 h 58
#30
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Quoting: Sidstick87
Tommy Fitz is the 1st Interm GM to ever win GM of the year??


If not. He’s literally handing teams 2$ Bills and getting back $20’s
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16 févr. 2020 à 21 h 0
#31
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Coleman's cap hit is a huge selling point. $1.8M for next season adds his value big time. Great trade by Tampa.
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16 févr. 2020 à 21 h 0
#32
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Nvm i thought he was a rental. Still an overpayment, though, if you ask me.
16 févr. 2020 à 21 h 1
#33
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He's alao a top 5 PK guy in the league.
16 févr. 2020 à 21 h 5
#34
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Oh, this is an interesting trade, one that fits the needs for both teams.
However, if the Canucks miss the playoffs (which is unlikely to happen, but this league can turn on a dime), the return is less significant for New Jersey. What is interesting for them is if the Vancouver Canucks make the playoffs and Arizona don't get a lottery pick, they now have THREE first round draft picks. They can do A LOT with those. They can move up, down, or simply keep them. This is brillant for New Jersey because they have some leverage in decision making, and this upcoming draft is STACKED !!! The best since 2015. As for Nolan Foote, he is a great prospect to have. He has grit, and the Devils don't have enough of that. Great day for the Devils.
As for Tampa, yes they did overpay, but they wanted to have the best chances moving forward in the playoffs. Coleman is exactly the kind of forward the Lightning needed, he will have a great chance to prove himself. They have so much depth they can put Patrick Maroon on the fourth line. They have two years to win the cup.
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16 févr. 2020 à 21 h 9
#35
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Quoting: Hedman77
i hate this


I'm telling ya man, I understand you probably haven't watched alot of Coleman so it seems rough, He is way more than whats on the stat sheet (21 goals is good tho =P). The Lightning need to get over the hump and he is just so good in any situation, 5v5, pk, even on the power play. He is constantly making smart plays with the puck. He was the only Devils forward who has played above expectation on a very very poor Devils team. You can slot him up and down the lineup and you get him for a year and a half. From a value perspective I understand your trepidation, but I promise you are getting a good player. Way more than just a bottom 6 grinder,
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16 févr. 2020 à 21 h 30
#36
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Quoting: Patriot12992
I'm telling ya man, I understand you probably haven't watched alot of Coleman so it seems rough, He is way more than whats on the stat sheet (21 goals is good tho =P). The Lightning need to get over the hump and he is just so good in any situation, 5v5, pk, even on the power play. He is constantly making smart plays with the puck. He was the only Devils forward who has played above expectation on a very very poor Devils team. You can slot him up and down the lineup and you get him for a year and a half. From a value perspective I understand your trepidation, but I promise you are getting a good player. Way more than just a bottom 6 grinder,


I'm not sure you understand the situation. This is worth more than Taylor Hall. Blake is NOT Hall.
16 févr. 2020 à 21 h 34
#37
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This trade will make me sick for a couple of days. What the ****? One of our two top prospects + VAN's 1st(! Not even Tampas) for Coleman?
He's great and having him and Cirelli on the lineup will be a nightmare for other teams, but HOLY **** WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON.

For this price to be justified, Coleman has to be a ****ing wizard for Tampa, in all aspects of the games.

It's true that his cap hit is great, and will be a great Killorn replacement for 2.7M less in cap hit next year, but still.

This is an incredibly high price to pay, I'm not happy at all.
Also, this trade hints that we are likely to see someone waive his NTC in Tampa this offseason.
And BriseBois saying "I know it's a hefty price but we can afford that" says be he's confident he's getting back some prospects/picks this summer by selling Killorn and
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16 févr. 2020 à 21 h 49
#38
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Quoting: exo2769
I'm not sure you understand the situation. This is worth more than Taylor Hall. Blake is NOT Hall.


I should explain myself better, from a value perspective it is an overpay plain and simple. But for a team like tampa value is a tricky thing to pin down, this is a team that needs to win with this core or it would be on the top 3 "teams that should have won" I think Coleman helps you do that. Also im just trying to point out to Tampa fans that they are gonna like what Coleman brings. With Hall I think there were some extenuating circumstances, First off he was a rental, second I think something happened in Jersey because they were in a mad rush to trade him. Anyway all that is why I said what I said. TLDR it's bad value but Coleman is a nice player who gives you more than the stat sheet indicates.
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16 févr. 2020 à 21 h 50
#39
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Quoting: Zwui21
This trade will make me sick for a couple of days. What the ****? One of our two top prospects + VAN's 1st(! Not even Tampas) for Coleman?
He's great and having him and Cirelli on the lineup will be a nightmare for other teams, but HOLY **** WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON.

For this price to be justified, Coleman has to be a ****ing wizard for Tampa, in all aspects of the games.

It's true that his cap hit is great, and will be a great Killorn replacement for 2.7M less in cap hit next year, but still.

This is an incredibly high price to pay, I'm not happy at all.
Also, this trade hints that we are likely to see someone waive his NTC in Tampa this offseason.
And BriseBois saying "I know it's a hefty price but we can afford that" says be he's confident he's getting back some prospects/picks this summer by selling Killorn and


Yeah. Its gotta be something like that. Playing the long game in terms of value.
He's ****ed the deadline market for his competition though. Also made the team better today.

I dont hate the addition. But the cost is huge.
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16 févr. 2020 à 21 h 55
#40
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Quoting: Zwui21
This trade will make me sick for a couple of days. What the ****? One of our two top prospects + VAN's 1st(! Not even Tampas) for Coleman?
He's great and having him and Cirelli on the lineup will be a nightmare for other teams, but HOLY **** WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON.

For this price to be justified, Coleman has to be a ****ing wizard for Tampa, in all aspects of the games.

It's true that his cap hit is great, and will be a great Killorn replacement for 2.7M less in cap hit next year, but still.

This is an incredibly high price to pay, I'm not happy at all.
Also, this trade hints that we are likely to see someone waive his NTC in Tampa this offseason.
And BriseBois saying "I know it's a hefty price but we can afford that" says be he's confident he's getting back some prospects/picks this summer by selling Killorn and


This is a fair take, as a Tampa fan would you have preferred them to just stand pat if these are the prices? I just think Coleman brings so much to a team that desperately needs to find a way to the promised land. But I understand wanting to keep the prospect line flowing.
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16 févr. 2020 à 22 h 26
#41
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TBay gave up too much. The team must want to win a Cup before the team gets torn down (of course we have said that about Sid and Malkin in Pitts and they are still knocking on the door a decade later).
16 févr. 2020 à 22 h 29
#42
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Quoting: ON3M4N
His goal scoring exploded when he started getting 17 minutes a night.... he's not getting that kind of TOI with TBL.


Don't really think they thought they were going to get the same goal production with a smaller usage percentage. He can chip in as needed and still provides the forecheck, defensive play, edge, and north-south speed to a team that uses all those tactics well. He'll fit like a glove in Tampa.
16 févr. 2020 à 22 h 39
#43
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Quoting: F50marco
I don't think anyone would argue Coleman isn't a good player. Maybe even exactly the type of player TB needs right now. I just don't understand how you can justify this price. Frankly its unjustifiable. If this was the price for Coleman, they should have found the next closest thing and paid probably less than half as much while still getting a decent enough player to fill the void they wanted Coleman to fill.

I hear a lot of "Well If Tampa wins, it'll be a good trade". I disagree. Not only was the pick they gave, NOT even Tampa's 1st, I expect Coleman will have play an integral part in TB winning the cup for it to be justified. Like almost winning the Conn Smyth type of involvement. Then, I think you can say that it was a good trade for TB....... When there are that many personal conditions needed to be justified, maybe you should rethink your strategy.


I think you would be hard-pressed to find a forward who plays like Blake Coleman and comes at an AAV below 2M that is also signed for next season. Sean Kuraly, Michael Raffl, Marcus Sorensen Jordan Weal, Luke Glendening, etc. don't come close to the same skillset that Coleman has.

Nolan Foote obviously has potential, but he is still a very unknown commodity at this point in his development. The 1st round pick is the cost of running a team trying to make it out of the Eastern Conference. These teams are going to be ruthless to play against, and having the ability to roll your lines that can play strong two-way play is worth the price of Foote and the 1st.

I agree with you that the "if Tampa wins, it will be a good trade...". The trade is already good for Tampa. They get a forward who fits right in with their system, has the ability to produce, plays with non-reckless energy, aggressive, but smart forechecker, and defensively minded center who is on a cheap contract. Maybe they don't win the Stanley Cup this year, but what they gave up is still worth trying to get there.
16 févr. 2020 à 22 h 43
#44
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Quoting: Rangsey
He's ****ed the deadline market for his competition though. Also made the team better today.


I don't quite see how this will negatively impact the market for rentals like Chris Kreider and Tyler Tofolli. The price for them is still going to be in the 1st + average prospect or 2nd round pick range, mostly because they are rentals.
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16 févr. 2020 à 22 h 55
#45
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Devil's last three trade deadlines:
2018: 2nd + prospect for Grabner, 3rd + Prospect for Maroon.
2019: Boyle for 2nd, Lovejoy for 3rd + Carrick, Kinkaid for 5th, Johansson for 2nd + 4th.
This year: Coleman for Foote and a first, Greene for 2nd + Quenneville.
They also got a 2nd + 4th for Stempniak in 2016. They kind of have a history of getting good returns, and they give out the same type of price when buying, too.
16 févr. 2020 à 23 h 7
#46
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Tyler Toffoli will now receive a 2020 1st round pick as STARTERS

I can't believe Tampa really did that...
16 févr. 2020 à 23 h 18
#47
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Quoting: seb
Oh, this is an interesting trade, one that fits the needs for both teams.
However, if the Canucks miss the playoffs (which is unlikely to happen, but this league can turn on a dime), the return is less significant for New Jersey. What is interesting for them is if the Vancouver Canucks make the playoffs and Arizona don't get a lottery pick, they now have THREE first round draft picks. They can do A LOT with those. They can move up, down, or simply keep them. This is brillant for New Jersey because they have some leverage in decision making, and this upcoming draft is STACKED !!! The best since 2015. As for Nolan Foote, he is a great prospect to have. He has grit, and the Devils don't have enough of that. Great day for the Devils.
As for Tampa, yes they did overpay, but they wanted to have the best chances moving forward in the playoffs. Coleman is exactly the kind of forward the Lightning needed, he will have a great chance to prove himself. They have so much depth they can put Patrick Maroon on the fourth line. They have two years to win the cup.


Cap certainly is a huge, huge factor here. Coleman's fair market value is at least $4M. He's been the Devils' best and most versatile player all season long. Imagine what his numbers would look like if he played w/ a more offensively minded C (no disrespect to Zajac)? The trade market is like the stock market: Buy low and sell high. The Devils did just that.
16 févr. 2020 à 23 h 19
#48
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This is a great trade for TBL. Their cap next year is toast and they are going to lose half their D. They need to save as much space as possible. Coleman is playing like a 4mil + player that Tampa just took control of through next year at basically a 50% + discount.
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16 févr. 2020 à 23 h 19
#49
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Quoting: Bf3351
Tyler Toffoli will now receive a 2020 1st round pick as STARTERS

I can't believe Tampa really did that...


Coleman is much more valuable than Toffoli. Not even close. Plus, Coleman has the extra year at a ridiculous cap hit.
16 févr. 2020 à 23 h 19
#50
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
I think you would be hard-pressed to find a forward who plays like Blake Coleman and comes at an AAV below 2M that is also signed for next season. Sean Kuraly, Michael Raffl, Marcus Sorensen Jordan Weal, Luke Glendening, etc. don't come close to the same skillset that Coleman has.

Nolan Foote obviously has potential, but he is still a very unknown commodity at this point in his development. The 1st round pick is the cost of running a team trying to make it out of the Eastern Conference. These teams are going to be ruthless to play against, and having the ability to roll your lines that can play strong two-way play is worth the price of Foote and the 1st.

I agree with you that the "if Tampa wins, it will be a good trade...". The trade is already good for Tampa. They get a forward who fits right in with their system, has the ability to produce, plays with non-reckless energy, aggressive, but smart forechecker, and defensively minded center who is on a cheap contract. Maybe they don't win the Stanley Cup this year, but what they gave up is still worth trying to get there.


Who said anything about finding EXACTLY what Coleman brings? I simply said find someone who brings something as close to as possible to what he does and pay a quarter of what TB paid.

As for that last sentence, when has that ever rang true? Or better yet, what percentage of teams who made trades like that, regretted them the following year? Nearly every single dang one.

Of course you can bring up guys like ROR with STL. That certainly worked out. Then again, look at what they paid for ROR and look at what they paid for Coleman.....

Coleman is a solid player but Tampa put all their chips in this one guy when they could have had a couple lesser good players but who would have given them not quite as much as Coleman will, and again for a fraction of the price.
 
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