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Gaudreau as a sequel to the Kessel trade

Créé par: Chigurrhh
Équipe: 2019-20 Penguins de Pittsburgh
Date de création initiale: 7 févr. 2020
Publié: 7 févr. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
So I get the sense that Flames fans and the organization aren't completely thrilled with where his game is. And we all know that he has some flaws as a player. But we also know that he's an insane offensive talent. Sound familiar?

So in the Original Kessel trade, the main portion of the trade was Kessel for Kapanen (a recent late first), a first round pick, a C level prospect, a fourth liner and a third. Kessel also had a lot of term and Toronto retained a lot.

This would be the sequel. Also worth noting is that Gaudreau has less term.
Transactions
CGY
  1. Bjugstad, Nick
  2. Joseph, Pierre-Olivier
  3. Lafferty, Sam
  4. Poulin, Samuel
  5. Choix de 1e ronde en 2020 (PIT)
  6. Choix de 3e ronde en 2021 (PIT)
Détails additionnels:
Lafferty is a solid, young, bottom six player. He has good speed and a good shot and is capable of playing center, wing, and on the PK.

Poulin was the Penguins recent 1st that is dominating in the Q right now. Has good size and plays a solid two-way game.

POJ is a solid LD prospect. He projects to be a 2nd or 3rd pairing guy with good skating and length in 2-3 years. Former Arizona first round pick.

Bjugstad is a tall C/RW with good skill and two-way game. He's been injured all year but is about to return.
Enfoui
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
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Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
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7 févr. 2020 à 15 h 54
#1
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A lot of meh for someone like Gaudreau. Trade starts with Guentzel.
7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 0
#2
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Chiggy
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Quoting: ClockReads2113
A lot of meh for someone like Gaudreau. Trade starts with Guentzel.


That's absurd. Guentzel is signed longer term at a cheaper price. He's played 16 fewer games than Gaudreau this year and still has more points than him, most of which happened while Crosby was injured. He was on pace for a 2nd consecutive 40-goal season when he got hurt.
7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 1
#3
Banni
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Quoting: ClockReads2113
A lot of meh for someone like Gaudreau. Trade starts with Guentzel.


omg that's a good one. How about no. Not even close.
7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 3
#4
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Quoting: Chigurrhh
That's absurd. Guentzel is signed longer term at a cheaper price. He's played 16 fewer games than Gaudreau this year and still has more points than him, most of which happened while Crosby was injured. He was on pace for a 2nd consecutive 40-goal season when he got hurt.


Did Guentzel hit 99 points? He'll never even hit 90 points. Guentzel is great but Gaudreau is much better. PIT fans are obsessed with Guentzel it's insane.
7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 5
#5
Banni
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Honestly, I don't see how Gaudreau helps the penguins.
He's not built for playoff hockey. He's a 5'9 midget winger. He's spent 4 years now as a 20 goal or less guy. Yet they think he's worth the world.
It's a massive over pay if you ask me and I really don't want him here.
They don't need to make bad decisions with guys who can't really help in intense games.
Let CGY keep him. The penguins are better off that way.
7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 10
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Quoting: pharrow
Honestly, I don't see how Gaudreau helps the penguins.
He's not built for playoff hockey. He's a 5'9 midget winger. He's spent 4 years now as a 20 goal or less guy. Yet they think he's worth the world.
It's a massive over pay if you ask me and I really don't want him here.
They don't need to make bad decisions with guys who can't really help in intense games.
Let CGY keep him. The penguins are better off that way.


Yeah Gaudreau brings the same thing as Crosby without the defense. Itd be pretty great to have him on the same line with crosby, see how many points Crosby can put up with an actual star level winger instead of getting tossed with guys like Simon every year. But that being said, while they still want to compete, they should start thinking about their young guys, cuz once Crosby and Malkin start to slow down, its game over if you go all in every year. Itd be a shame to see them completely collapse the way the Hawks did when Hossa left
7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 12
#7
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Chiggy
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Quoting: ClockReads2113
Did Guentzel hit 99 points? He'll never even hit 90 points. Guentzel is great but Gaudreau is much better. PIT fans are obsessed with Guentzel it's insane.


Oh, I had not idea it it was 2018. It's almost like you want to pretend that these players aren't trending in opposite directions. Gaudreau is a great player but that one 99 point season is an outlier. he's on pace for 63 this year. The reality is that he's really a 70-80 point guy like Phil Kessel was for a lot of his career. Kessel's 92 point year a few seasons ago was also an outlier.
7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 13
#8
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Quoting: ClockReads2113
Did Guentzel hit 99 points? He'll never even hit 90 points. Guentzel is great but Gaudreau is much better. PIT fans are obsessed with Guentzel it's insane.


He was on pace for 90+ this season but ok there angry guy
7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 14
#9
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Chiggy
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Quoting: SlickWilly
Yeah Gaudreau brings the same thing as Crosby without the defense. Itd be pretty great to have him on the same line with crosby, see how many points Crosby can put up with an actual star level winger instead of getting tossed with guys like Simon every year. But that being said, while they still want to compete, they should start thinking about their young guys, cuz once Crosby and Malkin start to slow down, its game over if you go all in every year. Itd be a shame to see them completely collapse the way the Hawks did when Hossa left


I happen to remember a guy that fits a lot of the description of Gaudreau doing pretty well with the Penguins in the playoffs. Phil Kessel was a negative defensive player. Avoided contact. "Can't help you in the playoffs" Oh, he happened to lead them in scoring on the way to a cup win.
7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 15
#10
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Quoting: Chigurrhh
Oh, I had not idea it it was 2018. It's almost like you want to pretend that these players aren't trending in opposite directions. Gaudreau is a great player but that one 99 point season is an outlier. he's on pace for 63 this year. The reality is that he's really a 70-80 point guy like Phil Kessel was for a lot of his career. Kessel's 92 point year a few seasons ago was also an outlier.


So YOU can nitpick and pick one season but I can't? This season is an outlier for him as well. CGY is bleh this year. He'll be back and tear it up more than Guentzel will.
7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 17
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Quoting: brgh4life
He was on pace for 90+ this season but ok there angry guy


On pace is not actually hitting it. If he played like 65+ games you have a point, but he didn't even play half the season. At one point mid way through the season John Carlson was on pace for 120 points. I wouldn't have said he would have hit it.
7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 18
#12
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Quoting: ClockReads2113
A lot of meh for someone like Gaudreau. Trade starts with Guentzel.


Yikes LOL
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7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 18
#13
Banni
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Quoting: SlickWilly
Yeah Gaudreau brings the same thing as Crosby without the defense. Itd be pretty great to have him on the same line with crosby, see how many points Crosby can put up with an actual star level winger instead of getting tossed with guys like Simon every year. But that being said, while they still want to compete, they should start thinking about their young guys, cuz once Crosby and Malkin start to slow down, its game over if you go all in every year. Itd be a shame to see them completely collapse the way the Hawks did when Hossa left


Every trade to the penguins.
"oh imagine how he'd be next to crosby"

What a pathetic argument.
It's so tired. Like the penguins should over pay for every winger because Crosby will carry them on his back.

How about we don't need a 5'9 midget winger who is totally useless in playoff hockey where you have to win the battles for the puck.
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7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 19
#14
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Chiggy
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Quoting: ClockReads2113
So YOU can nitpick and pick one season but I can't? This season is an outlier for him as well. CGY is bleh this year. He'll be back and tear it up more than Guentzel will.


Guentzel's season last year is exactly what I was talking about being the average Gaudreau season (but with more goal scoring) and he did it without PP1 time. And this season was a step up from that. He's been trending up since he entered the league.

Acting like there is a huge disparity between these two players because you have a personal preference for a Gaudreau and an apparent dislike of the Penguins/Guentzel is absurd.
7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 22
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Quoting: ClockReads2113
On pace is not actually hitting it. If he played like 65+ games you have a point, but he didn't even play half the season. At one point mid way through the season John Carlson was on pace for 120 points. I wouldn't have said he would have hit it.


So he finished 3 points behind JG last season at 5v5, was pacing for 90+ this season, but you don't want to recognize any of that? Frank off dude.
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7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 29
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Quoting: Chigurrhh
Guentzel's season last year is exactly what I was talking about being the average Gaudreau season (but with more goal scoring) and he did it without PP1 time. And this season was a step up from that. He's been trending up since he entered the league.

Acting like there is a huge disparity between these two players because you have a personal preference for a Gaudreau and an apparent dislike of the Penguins/Guentzel is absurd.


Guadreau is still better. Maybe not by a lot, but still better. And CGY isn't going to take spare parts for him. They'll need a game changer back as well or a top pick.
7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 29
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Quoting: brgh4life
So he finished 3 points behind JG last season at 5v5, was pacing for 90+ this season, but you don't want to recognize any of that? Frank off dude.


Okay great, but he didn't hit 99 points. Guadreau is still better. Not one GM in the league would take Guentzel over Gaudreau.
7 févr. 2020 à 16 h 40
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Chiggy
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Quoting: ClockReads2113
Guadreau is still better. Maybe not by a lot, but still better. And CGY isn't going to take spare parts for him. They'll need a game changer back as well or a top pick.


Over the last two seasons:

0NKjjDh.png

It's actually funny that you brought up Guentzel because they are weirdly similar at 5v5.

I would also point out that Guentzel is a year younger and signed for two more seasons at a lower cap hit, which impact's his value as a player.

When team's trade elite players, they generally don't get elite talent back. The Pittsburgh-Toronto Kessel trade is a similar example.
7 févr. 2020 à 17 h 20
#19
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Quoting: ClockReads2113
Guadreau is still better. Maybe not by a lot, but still better. And CGY isn't going to take spare parts for him. They'll need a game changer back as well or a top pick.


Gaudreau
449 games 429 points 124 on pp doesn't play center

Guentzel
243 games 200 points 36 pp can play center also better defensively younger and cheaper

i agree flames wont take spare parts for him and that is rightfully so, those are not spare parts. should they take that deal, really depends on direction they want to go. i hope they would not as a pens fan.
7 févr. 2020 à 17 h 40
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I would do it as a flames fan
7 févr. 2020 à 17 h 42
#21
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Quoting: Chigurrhh
Over the last two seasons:

0NKjjDh.png

It's actually funny that you brought up Guentzel because they are weirdly similar at 5v5.

I would also point out that Guentzel is a year younger and signed for two more seasons at a lower cap hit, which impact's his value as a player.


So they are about the same. One plays with one of the best players to ever play the game, the other doesn't. So I'd still give the edge to Gaudreau.

Quote:
When team's trade elite players, they generally don't get elite talent back. The Pittsburgh-Toronto Kessel trade is a similar example.


True, but when two contenders are trading then elite talent is expected in return or a piece that will turn into that, nothing in that PIT offer will be that. TOR was a bottom in the league and rebuilding when they traded Kessel. CGY is still going for it so they won't move Gaudreau for a bunch decent not great pieces.
7 févr. 2020 à 17 h 44
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Quoting: t2a2e9j12k2
Gaudreau
449 games 429 points 124 on pp doesn't play center

Guentzel
243 games 200 points 36 pp can play center also better defensively younger and cheaper

i agree flames wont take spare parts for him and that is rightfully so, those are not spare parts. should they take that deal, really depends on direction they want to go. i hope they would not as a pens fan.


But they are spare parts. There's nothing there that's great and you need to give up something great to get something great.

Lafferty, Sam - 4th liner
Poulin, Samuel - good not great prospect
Joseph, Pierre-Olivier - good not great prospect
Bjugstad, Nick - good 3rd liner
2020 1st round pick (PIT) - late 1st rarely turn into anything great
2021 3rd round pick (PIT) - even worse odds of turning into something great.

Flip this on it's head. Would you trade Gunetzel for that package? Doubt it.
7 févr. 2020 à 18 h 6
#23
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Quoting: ClockReads2113
But they are spare parts. There's nothing there that's great and you need to give up something great to get something great.

Lafferty, Sam - 4th liner
Poulin, Samuel - good not great prospect
Joseph, Pierre-Olivier - good not great prospect
Bjugstad, Nick - good 3rd liner
2020 1st round pick (PIT) - late 1st rarely turn into anything great
2021 3rd round pick (PIT) - even worse odds of turning into something great.

Flip this on it's head. Would you trade Gunetzel for that package? Doubt it.


disagree, on poulin and POJ is a very good prospect
Lafferty is a solid versatile 4th liner but with a good scoring touch.
scout well picks turn into what they should be.
I might remind you both players were 3rd round or later picks.
I said the flames should not take this package unless they plan on going the direction of full rebuild,
7 févr. 2020 à 18 h 19
#24
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Quoting: t2a2e9j12k2
disagree, on poulin and POJ is a very good prospect


I mean they're good but nothing great. At best Poulin is a good middle 6 winger. POJ is a good bottom 3 defensemen.

Quote:
Lafferty is a solid versatile 4th liner but with a good scoring touch.


Can find a Lafferty in every summer UFA pool.

Quote:
scout well picks turn into what they should be. I might remind you both players were 3rd round or later picks.


I don't know the numbers, but I'd say there's maybe 1 player a draft drafted 3rd round or beyond that turns into a Guentzel or Gaudreau.

Quote:
I said the flames should not take this package unless they plan on going the direction of full rebuild,


That we'll agree on. No way CGY rebuilds right now. Way too many good pieces to rebuild right now.
7 févr. 2020 à 19 h 32
#25
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Gaudreau > Guentzel

Even considering contract.

Just saying.
 
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