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stopping the cycle

Créé par: GuyCaballero
Équipe: 2019-20 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 7 févr. 2020
Publié: 7 févr. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
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  1. Ceci, Cody
  2. Schmaltz, Jordan
  3. Choix de 4e ronde en 2020 (VGK)
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7 févr. 2020 à 17 h 8
#26
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Quoting: Ryminister_27
What are you smoking? Johnsson was hurt and has played most of the time on the 3rd line with rotating centres. He'd actually be a great fit in Edmonton alongside either of McDavid or Draisaitl


Don't bother CD282 loves his stats but fails to see the sad stats that are the Oilers franchise
Ryminister_27 a aimé ceci.
7 févr. 2020 à 17 h 14
#27
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Quoting: Boomer125
Barrie is a 50 pt defense man, if the Leafs move him it's not for some oiler bust but for a pick in the draft where the Leafs generally hit not miss


He gets about 1/3 of his points on the PP, which wouldn't happen in Edmonton. Edmonton has the best PP in over 40 years so they won't change it to add Barrie. No value to Edmonton there.

At 5v5 Barrie is on pace to score 30 points (which is great) but he's only 50% GF% despite (a) playing behind a talented forward squad, (b) getting sheltered from elite comp (3rd pairing rates), and (c) getting an offensive zone push.

(a) matters because he wouldn't have as good forwards to play with in Edmonton, because (b) McDavid and Draisaitl lines face elite comp every night and Barrie can't defend against elites.

So maybe you can find a trade partner that values a 3rd pairing PP specialist like Barrie as a rental, but Edmonton ain't it.
7 févr. 2020 à 17 h 16
#28
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Quoting: Boomer125
Don't bother CD282 loves his stats but fails to see the sad stats that are the Oilers franchise


laugh

They're running neck-and-neck with the Maple Leafs!

http://www.nhl.com/stats/teams?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20192020&seasonTo=20192020&gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=pointPct&page=0&pageSize=50
7 févr. 2020 à 17 h 28
#29
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Quoting: Ryminister_27
What are you smoking? Johnsson was hurt and has played most of the time on the 3rd line with rotating centres. He'd actually be a great fit in Edmonton alongside either of McDavid or Draisaitl


What am I smoking? Why don't you look up the facts?

Johnsson has played 523:52 at 5v5 this season. Of that time, 399:00 was with Matthews (76.16%) and 358:22 with Nylander (68.41%). Centers he has played with this year:

Matthews: 399:00
Kerfoot: 31:42
Tavares: 29:22
Spezza: 23:00
Gauthier: 9:58

Unless Matthews and Tavares are now 3rd liners in Toronto, that statement is factually incorrect. And unless playing 76% of the time constitues "rotating", that statement is also factually incorrect. A guy who scores at a rate of 0.00 G/60 in 124:52 without Matthews and 0.30 G/60 with him certainly isn't going win a top-6 job - even in Edmonton.
7 févr. 2020 à 17 h 58
#30
Banni
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Quoting: CD282
He gets about 1/3 of his points on the PP, which wouldn't happen in Edmonton. Edmonton has the best PP in over 40 years so they won't change it to add Barrie. No value to Edmonton there.

At 5v5 Barrie is on pace to score 30 points (which is great) but he's only 50% GF% despite (a) playing behind a talented forward squad, (b) getting sheltered from elite comp (3rd pairing rates), and (c) getting an offensive zone push.

(a) matters because he wouldn't have as good forwards to play with in Edmonton, because (b) McDavid and Draisaitl lines face elite comp every night and Barrie can't defend against elites.

So maybe you can find a trade partner that values a 3rd pairing PP specialist like Barrie as a rental, but Edmonton ain't it.


Lol. He plays on the 2nd PP unit mostly with Kerfoot, Kapanen, Spezza and then a rookie in Sandin. First part of the season it wasn't Sandin but it rotated between guys. That unit also might be lucky to even get 30 seconds of a PP. kinda hard to judge a guy off that.

& Johnsson is definitely first 1PP material in Edmonton. Johnsson is 10x the player Chaisson is and would easily take his spot on it. Not to mention that Johnsson is better than both of McDavid's current line mates of Sam Gagner and Josh Archibald.

Some things stats can't tell you. Try learning some hockey nerd.
7 févr. 2020 à 22 h 17
#31
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Quoting: Ryminister_27
Lol. He plays on the 2nd PP unit mostly with Kerfoot, Kapanen, Spezza and then a rookie in Sandin. First part of the season it wasn't Sandin but it rotated between guys. That unit also might be lucky to even get 30 seconds of a PP. kinda hard to judge a guy off that.

& Johnsson is definitely first 1PP material in Edmonton. Johnsson is 10x the player Chaisson is and would easily take his spot on it. Not to mention that Johnsson is better than both of McDavid's current line mates of Sam Gagner and Josh Archibald.

Some things stats can't tell you. Try learning some hockey nerd.


I don't know any hockey nerd - is that a language or what? And no, Johnsson wouldn't take Chiasson's (occasional) spot on the PP, coaches don't use little guys in the net-front spot. Try learning something about the way the game is played.
7 févr. 2020 à 22 h 39
#32
Banni
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Quoting: CD282
I don't know any hockey nerd - is that a language or what? And no, Johnsson wouldn't take Chiasson's (occasional) spot on the PP, coaches don't use little guys in the net-front spot. Try learning something about the way the game is played.


LOLOLOLOL ... so guys like Brendan Gallagher don't play the net front on the PP? .. Johnsson has played net front on the PP almost his entire career including AHL and in Sweden and he's produced fine because he's aggressive and has good hands in tight.

Maybe you should try actually watching and learning something yourself. ? goodbye.
10 févr. 2020 à 9 h 52
#33
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Quoting: Ryminister_27
Lol. He plays on the 2nd PP unit mostly with Kerfoot, Kapanen, Spezza and then a rookie in Sandin. First part of the season it wasn't Sandin but it rotated between guys. That unit also might be lucky to even get 30 seconds of a PP. kinda hard to judge a guy off that.

& Johnsson is definitely first 1PP material in Edmonton. Johnsson is 10x the player Chaisson is and would easily take his spot on it. Not to mention that Johnsson is better than both of McDavid's current line mates of Sam Gagner and Josh Archibald.

Some things stats can't tell you. Try learning some hockey nerd.


Quoting: Ryminister_27
LOLOLOLOL ... so guys like Brendan Gallagher don't play the net front on the PP? .. Johnsson has played net front on the PP almost his entire career including AHL and in Sweden and he's produced fine because he's aggressive and has good hands in tight.

Maybe you should try actually watching and learning something yourself. ? goodbye.


A bunch of what you wrote is factually incorrect.

1) (Johnsson) plays on the 2nd PP unit mostly with Kerfoot, Kapanen, Spezza and then a rookie in Sandin.

Incorrect. Johnsson's most common linemates at 5v4 this season: Matthews, Rielly, Marner, Tavares and Nylander, in that order. He's been with Matthews for 85% of his 5v4 TOI.

http://naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20192020&thruseason=20192020&stype=2&sit=5v4&stdoi=oi&rate=n&v=t&playerid=8477341

2) Johnsson is definitely first 1PP material in Edmonton.

It's not a sure thing as you seem to think. He isn't better than McDavid, Draisaitl or Nugent-Hopkins. That leaves one spot, the one occupied by Neal (and, occasionally, Chiasson). He'd have to outscore those two to take that spot, which segue's nicely into your next point...

3) Johnsson is 10x the player Chaisson is and would easily take his spot

Let's look at their 5v4 goal scoring rates, shall we?

Neal: 4.56 G/60 (144:34) - 2nd in the league behind only Pastrnak
Chiasson: 3.14 G/60 (95:34) - 14th in the league and ahead of all Leafs players not named Matthews
Johnsson: 2.14 G/60 (84:09) - 55th in the league, better than I thought but still significantly behind Chiasson and Neal

Here are the same three players listed by their point production at 5v4:

Chiasson: 6.91 P/60 - for reference, Tavares in 6.93 and Matthews is 6.33.
Neal: 6.64 P/60
Johnsson: 2.85 P/60

It looks like Johnsson doesn't get involved in the play unless its to put the puck in the net. In other words, he isn't a material contributor to Toronto's power play. And his scoring rates are much lower than either Chiasson or Neal post anyhow.

4) Not to mention that Johnsson is better than both of McDavid's current line mates of Sam Gagner and Josh Archibald.

This might well be true, but if it is, why isn't he producing? Here are these players 5v5 scoring rates and their most common linemates.

Johnsson: 0.33 G/60 ... 1.53 P/60 (Matthews, Nylander)
Gagner: 0.50 G/60 ... 1.49 P/60 (Neal, Chiasson)
Archibald: 0.51 G/60 ... 1.03 P/60 (Sheahan, Khaira)

One of these is not like the others - and yet Johnsson has poorer goal scoring rates than the others. Lets look ONLY at their rates with the centers in question: Gagner and Archibald with McDavid, Johnsson with Matthews:

Archibald: 1.08 G/60 ... 2.17 P/60 (110:46 with McDavid, 23.7% of his total TOI)
Gagner: 0.97 G/60 ... 1.94 P/60 (61:55 with McDavid, 17.1%)
Johnsson: 0.42 G/60 ... 1.70 P/60 (423:55 with Matthews, 77.0%)

If Johnsson can't produce with Matthews, what makes you think he would next to McDavid? I don't think there's any evidence for that assertion. Maybe it would be hellpful to look at each of these players AWAY from their team's best center.

Gagner: 0.40 G/60 ... 1.40 P/60 (300:05 without McDavid)
Archibald: 0.34 G/60 ... 0.67 P/60 (357:15 without McDavid)
Johnsson: 0.00 G/60 ... 0.95 P/60 (126:41 without Matthews)

Yikes. None of these guys look particularly hot. Pretty sad that Johnsson isn't up to Sam Gagner's level of production. Most people consider Sam Gagner to be a cap dump / AHL player. Where does that leave Andreas Johnsson?
10 févr. 2020 à 9 h 59
#34
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Quoting: Ryminister_27
LOLOLOLOL ... so guys like Brendan Gallagher don't play the net front on the PP? .. Johnsson has played net front on the PP almost his entire career including AHL and in Sweden and he's produced fine because he's aggressive and has good hands in tight.

Maybe you should try actually watching and learning something yourself. ? goodbye.


By the way... Brendan Gallagher's scoring rate at 5v4 is 0.63, good for 9th best forward on his team and 205th best forward in the league (40+ minutes). He wouldn't make Edmonton's 1st unit either.
10 févr. 2020 à 10 h 13
#35
Banni
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Quoting: CD282
A bunch of what you wrote is factually incorrect.

1) (Johnsson) plays on the 2nd PP unit mostly with Kerfoot, Kapanen, Spezza and then a rookie in Sandin.

Incorrect. Johnsson's most common linemates at 5v4 this season: Matthews, Rielly, Marner, Tavares and Nylander, in that order. He's been with Matthews for 85% of his 5v4 TOI.

http://naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20192020&thruseason=20192020&stype=2&sit=5v4&stdoi=oi&rate=n&v=t&playerid=8477341

2) Johnsson is definitely first 1PP material in Edmonton.

It's not a sure thing as you seem to think. He isn't better than McDavid, Draisaitl or Nugent-Hopkins. That leaves one spot, the one occupied by Neal (and, occasionally, Chiasson). He'd have to outscore those two to take that spot, which segue's nicely into your next point...

3) Johnsson is 10x the player Chaisson is and would easily take his spot

Let's look at their 5v4 goal scoring rates, shall we?

Neal: 4.56 G/60 (144:34) - 2nd in the league behind only Pastrnak
Chiasson: 3.14 G/60 (95:34) - 14th in the league and ahead of all Leafs players not named Matthews
Johnsson: 2.14 G/60 (84:09) - 55th in the league, better than I thought but still significantly behind Chiasson and Neal

Here are the same three players listed by their point production at 5v4:

Chiasson: 6.91 P/60 - for reference, Tavares in 6.93 and Matthews is 6.33.
Neal: 6.64 P/60
Johnsson: 2.85 P/60

It looks like Johnsson doesn't get involved in the play unless its to put the puck in the net. In other words, he isn't a material contributor to Toronto's power play. And his scoring rates are much lower than either Chiasson or Neal post anyhow.

4) Not to mention that Johnsson is better than both of McDavid's current line mates of Sam Gagner and Josh Archibald.

This might well be true, but if it is, why isn't he producing? Here are these players 5v5 scoring rates and their most common linemates.

Johnsson: 0.33 G/60 ... 1.53 P/60 (Matthews, Nylander)
Gagner: 0.50 G/60 ... 1.49 P/60 (Neal, Chiasson)
Archibald: 0.51 G/60 ... 1.03 P/60 (Sheahan, Khaira)

One of these is not like the others - and yet Johnsson has poorer goal scoring rates than the others. Lets look ONLY at their rates with the centers in question: Gagner and Archibald with McDavid, Johnsson with Matthews:

Archibald: 1.08 G/60 ... 2.17 P/60 (110:46 with McDavid, 23.7% of his total TOI)
Gagner: 0.97 G/60 ... 1.94 P/60 (61:55 with McDavid, 17.1%)
Johnsson: 0.42 G/60 ... 1.70 P/60 (423:55 with Matthews, 77.0%)

If Johnsson can't produce with Matthews, what makes you think he would next to McDavid? I don't think there's any evidence for that assertion. Maybe it would be hellpful to look at each of these players AWAY from their team's best center.

Gagner: 0.40 G/60 ... 1.40 P/60 (300:05 without McDavid)
Archibald: 0.34 G/60 ... 0.67 P/60 (357:15 without McDavid)
Johnsson: 0.00 G/60 ... 0.95 P/60 (126:41 without Matthews)

Yikes. None of these guys look particularly hot. Pretty sad that Johnsson isn't up to Sam Gagner's level of production. Most people consider Sam Gagner to be a cap dump / AHL player. Where does that leave Andreas Johnsson?


Lol. I don't care to even read that much to respond.
Get a life.
10 févr. 2020 à 10 h 20
#36
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Quoting: Ryminister_27
Lol. I don't care to even read that much to respond.
Get a life.


So... you wish to remain ignorant. Got it. applaud
10 févr. 2020 à 10 h 23
#37
Banni
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Quoting: CD282
So... you wish to remain ignorant. Got it. applaud


Nah. I just have more of a life than to sit here and read an essay in reply to a simple comment. ??
10 févr. 2020 à 12 h 10
#38
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Quoting: Ryminister_27
Nah. I just have more of a life than to sit here and read an essay in reply to a simple comment. ??


Apparently not. tears of joy
24 févr. 2020 à 19 h 11
#39
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Quoting: GuyCaballero
We are looking for the next "Rielly Whisperer", a more defensively oriented player with a physical edge


Just you looking for Larsson though.

Brutal!
 
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