Forums/NHL Trades

(TOR/LAK) - Moore, 2020 3rd round pick, Conditionial 2021 3rd round pick for Campbell, Clifford

Who won the trade?
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6 fév à 10 h 08
#101
gregb569
Rejoint: fév 2019
Messages: 975
Mentions "j'aime": 296
Quoting: Jarvis
Look through the draft board. 3rd round picks arent that valuable. Its not that often that 3rd round picks end up making the NHL.
Leafs have a log jam on their LW depth chart and Moore hasnt been anything that special since returning from injury.


So add another LW in Clifford
6 fév à 10 h 28
#102
Hockey Super Genius
Rejoint: jun 2015
Messages: 2,303
Mentions "j'aime": 488
I respect TOR & Dubas for going out and getting what TOR needed in a back-up goalie & some size at forward.

- but giving up a solid young / fast 4th liner that is cost controlled, basically a 2nd & 3rd Rdr too for a slow rental 4th liner & a very average back-up is a lot to pay.

- IMO, I def think the Pens should trade DeSmith now (a much better back-up) if this is the set asking price now?
6 fév à 10 h 34
#103
Hawks and Leafs Fan
Rejoint: fév 2020
Messages: 6
Mentions "j'aime": 3
Dubas did wonders with this trade. Campbell is a good backup, much better than Hutchinson. They also get a gritty forward that isn't afraid to drop gloves which was a characteristic missing on the team. Giving up Moore isn't that bad of a move as they have way too many skilled forwards as it is. Picks you never know what can come out of them... Some picks never even play in the NHL... Overall this was a great trade for Toronto. Especially with LA holding some salary. Now they just need to find some stay at home D men
OldNYIfan et thelastlongbow a aimé ceci.
6 fév à 10 h 54
#104
Rejoint: mar 2019
Messages: 1,510
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Quoting: Hockeylover360
This trade gives Toronto the needs of physical presences and a back up goalie but is the cost worth it? Debatable.


No offense but a backup goalie was going to cost SOMETHING. Were you following the Leafs ACGMs where backup goalies were being traded for Kapanen or Johnsson?

Yeah this trade is far more palatable than the player values being discussed on this site.
OldNYIfan et palhal a aimé ceci.
6 fév à 11 h 35
#105
Habs/Pens fan
Rejoint: oct 2017
Messages: 838
Mentions "j'aime": 259
Quoting: oneX
No offense but a backup goalie was going to cost SOMETHING. Were you following the Leafs ACGMs where backup goalies were being traded for Kapanen or Johnsson?

Yeah this trade is far more palatable than the player values being discussed on this site.


Oh, I know but I only pay one 3rd.
6 fév à 12 h 00
#106
First NY Then LA
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 9,535
Mentions "j'aime": 4,117
Quoting: AwesomeMatthews
Much needed move by Toronto unfortunately it comes with a cost of a great, promising forward love you Trevor enjoy Hollywood and the weather that comes with it!


Homeboy Trevor is from Thousand Oaks, so he's quite familiar with the weather out here.
6 fév à 12 h 18
#107
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 408
Mentions "j'aime": 176
A win for LA getting two picks (with one potentially upgrading to a 2nd) for their backup and a pending UFA fourth liner
6 fév à 12 h 18
#108
First NY Then LA
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 9,535
Mentions "j'aime": 4,117
This is a good trade for both teams. Toronto gets the backup goalie upgrade on Hutchinson they need plus some real grit from a character player who gives as much in the 59th minute as in the first, which is not always a characteristic of the Maple Leafs. LA gets another third that they may be able to pair with their own and upgrade to a second, plus a good, fast, young forward from the neighborhood, plus a potential second. I can't wait to see how this trade turns out. When Campbell wins his 6th game I hope everyone in the respective fanbases will be as ecstatic as me!
oneX et Patriot12992 a aimé ceci.
6 fév à 12 h 42
#109
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 1,428
Mentions "j'aime": 310
I'd say plan the parade, but who am I kidding, leafs fans have had that planned for a while now.
6 fév à 13 h 02
#110
The evil stats guy
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 5,096
Mentions "j'aime": 2,326
Quoting: gregb569
you're too much with these stats.. have you ever worn a pair of skates? be honest


Not that it matters but yes, I played AAA.

Seeing that stats are a useful tool in player evaluation doesn't require you to have played at a high level, you just need to have 2 brain cells and the willingness to learn
oneX a aimé ceci.
6 fév à 13 h 03
#111
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Rejoint: jui 2015
Messages: 30,428
Mentions "j'aime": 7,501
Besides this season, Campbell is signed for an additonal 2 years at 1.675m. So the Leafs may have solved their back up situation for next year.
oneX et OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
6 fév à 13 h 04
#112
gregb569
Rejoint: fév 2019
Messages: 975
Mentions "j'aime": 296
Quoting: Random2152
Not that it matters but yes, I played AAA


is there any evidence to support that?
6 fév à 13 h 06
#113
The evil stats guy
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 5,096
Mentions "j'aime": 2,326
Quoting: gregb569
is there any evidence to support that?


You want me to dox myself to win an internet argument that you still haven't even gotten to the point of?

Good ****ing lord you are ****ing special kid
OldNYIfan et mondo a aimé ceci.
6 fév à 13 h 14
#114
gregb569
Rejoint: fév 2019
Messages: 975
Mentions "j'aime": 296
Quoting: Random2152
You want me to dox myself to win an internet argument that you still haven't even gotten to the point of?

Good ****ing lord you are ****ing special kid


Nah I just think you're one of those nerds who thinks they can link stats into an argument and be right, there's a difference between knowing the game and knowing stats, all I see you do is post someone elses stats and think you're right
6 fév à 13 h 17
#115
The evil stats guy
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 5,096
Mentions "j'aime": 2,326
Quoting: gregb569
Nah I just think you're one of those nerds who thinks they can link stats into an argument and be right, there's a difference between knowing the game and knowing stats, all I see you do is post someone elses stats and think you're right


All I see is you walk around thinking your hot ****, what does that say about you?

You know nothing, but you think you're a ****ing genius that deserves others to prove their worth to you.

Honestly you are one of the least intelligent posters on the entire site. I cannot remember the last time I saw you making a well reasoned argument and all you do is make irrelevant statements not based in fact and attack others.

All this to say good day to you.
oneX a aimé ceci.
6 fév à 13 h 24
#116
gregb569
Rejoint: fév 2019
Messages: 975
Mentions "j'aime": 296
Quoting: Random2152
All I see is you walk around thinking your hot ****, what does that say about you?

You know nothing, but you think you're a ****ing genius that deserves others to prove their worth to you.

Honestly you are one of the least intelligent posters on the entire site. I cannot remember the last time I saw you making a well reasoned argument and all you do is make irrelevant statements not based in fact and attack others.

All this to say good day to you.


Lol, clearly I'm close to being right otherwise you wouldn't have gotten this offended. At least now I know the truth.
I'm sorry that you're insecure and can't handle the truth.

As for me "attacking" people, this again leads me to believe you didn't play competitive hockey, if you did you wouldn't be this incapable of taking chirps, or you're just a huge fcking pu$$y, either way, I got money on you lying and being a basement stats nerd.
6 fév à 13 h 48
#117
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 8,831
Mentions "j'aime": 1,830
Quoting: oneX
Sure...keep telling yourself that. Fans of other teams call Leafs fans delusional all the time, that can't be rude at all but this is.

So cool to pass those Kapanen/Johnsson ACGMs not serious. Just goes to show how out to lunch people are on player values.


people being out of touch on hockey values does not really excuse your behavior does it?
I mean really. My post was clearly nothing more than hockey talk and your reply was that of a snot.
If you can't talk hockey without acting that way, maybe it's time you walk away from posting.
6 fév à 14 h 14
#118
Nazaleaf
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 113
Mentions "j'aime": 99
I couldn't keep my stupid brain from thinking yesterday that I wished Ceci would've been hurt instead of Rielly or Barrie. What a dumb thing to say about a player from you own team.
And lo and behold, Ceci is "out for a while" after last night's game.
Sheesh... Why can't us fans just wish good things and good things only?

Anyhow, I'm happy with this trade. We needed both Campbell and Clifford and didn't give up a lot. Moore is a good player but you've got to lose something to gain something... So it works. And picks may or may not pan out so it's a bit of a wash (even if I'm unhappy about the possible 2nd rounder).
Now RHD, please Kyle!
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
6 fév à 14 h 47
#119
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 28
Mentions "j'aime": 19
Quoting: CapFriendly

Sad Moore is gone but great opportunity for a bigger role on a rebuilding team he wasn’t going to get in Toronto, your gonna love this kid kings fans.
OldNYIfan et thelastlongbow a aimé ceci.
6 fév à 18 h 18
#120
Rejoint: nov 2018
Messages: 2,552
Mentions "j'aime": 547
The Leafs miss the playoffs and Dubas will be fired. You would think the Leafs would have learned their lesson when they hired a rookie GM with good book smarts but no hockey sense in JFJ but yet the Leafs had hired Dubas, a corsi nerd with no real hockey knowledge and they are going through another GM legend to rookie book nerd disaster (Pat Quinn to JFJ, now Lou Lam to Dubas).
HabsForEver a aimé ceci.
6 fév à 20 h 29
#121
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 332
Mentions "j'aime": 90
wow, Dubas is so afraid to move a scoring forward. Just trade one for good D and maybe another for a good G.
TOR is one of the worst teams in GA, their D is horrible and G is not much better.
Clifford and Campbell for 2nd, 3rd and Moore? wow, TOR lost again. I mean yes, they probably just got a little better, but this is marginal, I don't get it.
6 fév à 20 h 45
#122
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 4,108
Mentions "j'aime": 1,462
Quoting: vmach
wow, Dubas is so afraid to move a scoring forward. Just trade one for good D and maybe another for a good G.
TOR is one of the worst teams in GA, their D is horrible and G is not much better.
Clifford and Campbell for 2nd, 3rd and Moore? wow, TOR lost again. I mean yes, they probably just got a little better, but this is marginal, I don't get it.


Having a fringe backup goalie isn't going to help the team where they need it. Toronto media is trying to spin it so it looks like this was exactly what the Leafs need, but honestly this trade doesn't even help the Leafs.
7 fév à 6 h 22
#123
gregb569
Rejoint: fév 2019
Messages: 975
Mentions "j'aime": 296
Quoting: Random2152
All I see is you walk around thinking your hot ****, what does that say about you?

You know nothing, but you think you're a ****ing genius that deserves others to prove their worth to you.

Honestly you are one of the least intelligent posters on the entire site. I cannot remember the last time I saw you making a well reasoned argument and all you do is make irrelevant statements not based in fact and attack others.

All this to say good day to you.


https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/much-upgrade-jack-campbell-michael-hutchinson/ if you still dont believe me that the leafs got marginally better smile
7 fév à 9 h 26
#124
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 164
Mentions "j'aime": 120
Trades like this can be hard to evaluate since it's a clear buyer versus seller move, but I think this range is somewhere between fair and LA wins, just based on the longer term value.

Clifford is a good add, and a clear upgrade on Moore. He adds some grit without subtracting Toronto's ability to run play, and he actually stylistically fits in with Toronto's fourth line better, as the fourth line actually is a slower bigger line that does well when just holding the puck. Clifford holds the puck differently than Spezza, but the Leafs would likely want their fourth line to cycle the puck, and Moore isn't very good at that. Overall, if this trade was just Moore for Clifford, I would think the Leafs did great here.

The Campbell part of the trade was an overpay. Campbell is an upgrade, and maybe they are banking on him performing better in their system (where they allow more high slot shots, something he has historically done well on, and Hutchinson hasn't), but overall, he isn't a guy anyone expects to become a number one goalie anymore, so normally you see a couple 5th rounders or something like that.

Now, the actual value difference if this was two 5th's versus two 3rds is actually pretty a lot less than people may realize, but it still seems like Dubas ended up paying a premium to do something quicker.

I also am not quite sure why DeSmith, who has actually pretty good every season he has played everywhere, wasn't a higher priority target given the fact he cleared waivers already.

All that said, I think chances are Toronto nets similar value as they gave up, and I think the shake up was necessary, but I don't get the praise for the value. It's fine probably, but no home runs were hit here on this trade. You can praise that he did something aggressively, which is fine, but this is a pretty minor trade in most respects, and LA certainly did well here, so I really don't get the over reactions in each direction.
thelastlongbow a aimé ceci.
7 fév à 9 h 48
#125
best poster
Rejoint: jui 2019
Messages: 1,999
Mentions "j'aime": 1,131
Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
The Leafs miss the playoffs and Dubas will be fired. You would think the Leafs would have learned their lesson when they hired a rookie GM with good book smarts but no hockey sense in JFJ but yet the Leafs had hired Dubas, a corsi nerd with no real hockey knowledge and they are going through another GM legend to rookie book nerd disaster (Pat Quinn to JFJ, now Lou Lam to Dubas).


*toilet flushing sounds*
 
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