Forums/Armchair-GM

Manson Family

Créé par: GuyCaballero
Date de création initiale: fév 2, 2020
Publié: Feb 2 at 11:42 am
Équipe: 2019-20 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Explications
Let's assume Leafs have established they cannot re-sign Muzzin (maybe he wants too much term on contract -whatever); and that Morgan Rielly will not recover on time for playoffs
This may change management thinking - short and longer term
Just remember, any player can be traded away later after serving as a short term fix
Transactions
TOR
  1. Oleksiak, Jamie
  2. Peterson, Jacob [Liste de réserve]
  3. 2021 2e round pick (DAL)
DAL
  1. Muzzin, Jake
  2. Åberg, Pontus
TOR
  1. Crouse, Lawson
  2. Hill, Adin
  3. 2020 2e round pick (ARI)
ARI
  1. Scott, Ian
  2. Barrie, Tyson
TOR
  1. Comtois, Maxime
  2. Gudbranson, Erik
  3. Manson, Josh
ANA
  1. Kapanen, Kasperi
  2. Kerfoot, Alexander
  3. Bracco, Jeremy
  4. Duszak, Joseph
  5. Ceci, Cody
  6. Harpur, Ben
  7. 2022 1e round pick (TOR)
  8. 2020 2e round pick (TOR)
Rachats de contrats
  • Mikhail Grabovski: 0 $
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Phil Kessel: 1 200 000 $ (15%)
  • Robin Lehner: 1 100 000 $ (22%)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2020
ARI
CBJ
TOR
VGK
TOR
CAR
COL
SJS
STL
WPG
2021
TOR
DAL
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2581 500 000 $75 800 060 $0 $335 000 $5 699 940 $

Formation

Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
TOR
Hyman, Zach
2 250 000 $
AG
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Matthews, Auston
11 634 000 $
C
UFA - 5
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
10 893 000 $
AD
UFA - 6
ARI
Crouse, Lawson
1 533 333 $
AG
RFA - 3
TOR
Tavares, John
11 000 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 6
TOR
Nylander, William
6 962 366 $
AD, AG
UFA - 5
TOR
Johnsson, Andreas
3 400 000 $
AG
UFA - 4
ANA
Comtois, Maxime
820 000 $
C, AG
RFA - 2
TOR
Engvall, Pierre
925 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
TOR
Moore, Trevor
775 000 $
AD, AG
RFA - 2
TOR
Gauthier, Frédérik
675 000 $
C
RFA - 1
TOR
Spezza, Jason
700 000 $
C, AD
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Timashov, Dmytro
694 444 $
AG
RFA - 1
TOR
Brooks, Adam
759 167 $
C
RFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
TOR
Dermott, Travis
863 333 $
DG
RFA - 1
ANA
Manson, Josh
4 100 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 3
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
5 000 000 $
G
NTC
UFA - 2
DAL
Oleksiak, Jamie
2 137 500 $
DG
UFA - 2
TOR
Holl, Justin
675 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
TOR
Hutchinson, Michael
700 000 $
G
UFA - 1
TOR
Sandin, Rasmus
894 167 $
DG
RFA - 3
ANA
Gudbranson, Erik
4 000 000 $
DD
UFA - 2
ARI
Hill, Adin
708 750 $
G
RFA - 1
TOR
Gravel, Kevin
700 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
TOR
Marincin, Martin
700 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
5 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 3
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
925 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
TOR
Horton, Nathan
5 300 000 $
AD
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Clarkson, David
5 250 000 $
AD
NMC NTC
UFA - 1

Unités spéciales

Avantage numérique 1
Matthews, A.
Tavares, J.
Marner, M.
Sandin, R.
Manson, J.
Avantage numérique 2
Johnsson, A.
Spezza, J.
Nylander, W.
Dermott, T.
Holl, J.
Infériorité numérique 1
Hyman, Z.
Engvall, P.
Oleksiak, J.
Manson, J.
Infériorité numérique 2
Tavares, J.
Marner, M.
Dermott, T.
Holl, J.

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2 fév à 11 h 57
#1
I just need sauce
Rejoint: oct 2017
Messages: 2,151
Mentions "j'aime": 859
You forgot Charles Manson.
2 fév à 12 h 00
#2
M. Marincin Truther
Rejoint: fév 2018
Messages: 3,380
Mentions "j'aime": 1,068
Ceci>gudbranson
2 fév à 12 h 07
#3
Rejoint: déc 2018
Messages: 1,632
Mentions "j'aime": 557
Why the hell are the Leafs taking Gudbranson and his overpriced salary?
2 fév à 12 h 10
#4
HadesOfSocal
Rejoint: déc 2019
Messages: 582
Mentions "j'aime": 156
Quality > Quantity
2 fév à 12 h 20
#5
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 752
Mentions "j'aime": 194
is this like putting a video game on hard mode because you want to see how hard the game can actually be?
2 fév à 12 h 38
#6
First NY Then LA
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 9,677
Mentions "j'aime": 4,171
Quoting: Jack_
Ceci>gudbranson


Gudbranson: 41 games - 4 goals, 5 assists = 9 points -- and 89 penalty minutes
Ceci: 52 games - 1 goal and 7 assists = 8 points -- and 20 penalty minutes, at a 20% premium in salary and cap hit
Defensively, there's not much to choose between the two of them, even when you go beyond plus-minus
2 fév à 12 h 38
#7
First NY Then LA
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 9,677
Mentions "j'aime": 4,171
Quoting: TheresAlwaysNextYear
Why the hell are the Leafs taking Gudbranson and his overpriced salary?


For toughness and he's having a career year, which Ceci is not
2 fév à 12 h 39
#8
Rejoint: déc 2018
Messages: 1,632
Mentions "j'aime": 557
Quoting: OldNYIfan
For toughness and he's having a career year, which Ceci is not


But for another year at 4 million? There are so many better players who are much cheaper
palhal a aimé ceci.
2 fév à 12 h 41
#9
First NY Then LA
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 9,677
Mentions "j'aime": 4,171
Quoting: TheresAlwaysNextYear
But for another year at 4 million? There are so many better players who are much cheaper


. . . and unlikely to be on the market at a Toronto-affordable price. Run through the list in your mind.
2 fév à 12 h 43
#10
Rejoint: déc 2018
Messages: 1,632
Mentions "j'aime": 557
Quoting: OldNYIfan
. . . and unlikely to be on the market at a Toronto-affordable price. Run through the list in your mind.


Maybe if Anaheim retains 50%
2 fév à 12 h 50
#11
M. Marincin Truther
Rejoint: fév 2018
Messages: 3,380
Mentions "j'aime": 1,068
Quoting: OldNYIfan
Gudbranson: 41 games - 4 goals, 5 assists = 9 points -- and 89 penalty minutes
Ceci: 52 games - 1 goal and 7 assists = 8 points -- and 20 penalty minutes, at a 20% premium in salary and cap hit
Defensively, there's not much to choose between the two of them, even when you go beyond plus-minus


Gudbranson has awful stats and has another season left
2 fév à 12 h 51
#12
First NY Then LA
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 9,677
Mentions "j'aime": 4,171
Quoting: TheresAlwaysNextYear
Maybe if Anaheim retains 50%


Oh, Anaheim isn't going to trade him -- he and Manson are the only NHL-capable right-handed defensemen we have. But he would be a very good 2nd or 3rd pairing guy for you. Don't forget you have only two defensemen signed for next year (disregarding RFA Dermott)-- Rielly and Sandin, and all three are lefties.
Jah1722 a aimé ceci.
2 fév à 12 h 54
#13
First NY Then LA
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 9,677
Mentions "j'aime": 4,171
Modifié 2 fév à 13 h 40. Raison: added explanatory sentence
Quoting: Jack_
Gudbranson has awful stats and has another season left


What awful stats are you talking about? I've just given you 5 stats, in 4 of which Gudbranson is superior to Ceci. And the fact that he is signed for another year is a plus, not a minus, because you have absolutely nobody signed for next year on that side.

Edit: I didn't realize Toronto re-upped Holl on New Year's Eve. I must have been doing something else that day . . .
Jah1722 et GuyCaballero a aimé ceci.
2 fév à 13 h 10
#14
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 12,894
Mentions "j'aime": 3,977
Quoting: OldNYIfan
. . . and unlikely to be on the market at a Toronto-affordable price. Run through the list in your mind.


Which is why I think TO stands pat at the deadline. Really they are 3rd best in the league since Keefe took over. The only better teams have been Tampa and Pittsburgh. Also name a team that is playing as well as TO and will be getting Morgan Rielly as a reinforcement by the end of the season?

I don't know if any moves are needed. If something is done, I imagine it'll be for a RHD but only if it makes sense.
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
2 fév à 13 h 13
#15
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 12,894
Mentions "j'aime": 3,977
Quoting: OldNYIfan
What awful stats are you talking about? I've just given you 5 stats, in 4 of which Gudbranson is superior to Ceci. And the fact that he is signed for another year is a plus, not a minus, because you have absolutely nobody signed for next year on that side.


If you go into advanced stats though Gudbranson is just a plug who is slow and tough. He's only valuable to people who value a big guy that'll drop the gloves. Outside of that Ceci is better. Better skater, better puck mover and as good defensively. Although I would say they are very close all around. I think people are doing the whole, if there is any difference let's blow it out of proportion on this one.

If they could be rated out of a hundred, the difference isn't much. Maybe Ceci is a point or two better. The extra year at 4 million is a problem for Gudbranson though.
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
2 fév à 13 h 14
#16
M. Marincin Truther
Rejoint: fév 2018
Messages: 3,380
Mentions "j'aime": 1,068
Quoting: OldNYIfan
What awful stats are you talking about? I've just given you 5 stats, in 4 of which Gudbranson is superior to Ceci. And the fact that he is signed for another year is a plus, not a minus, because you have absolutely nobody signed for next year on that side.


Points dont matter for defenseman. Plus/minus is a horrible stat and penalty minutes arent good for anyone. His isolated impact isnt good at all, hes not a good play driver and he gets out shot and out chanced when hes on the ice
2 fév à 13 h 30
#17
First NY Then LA
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 9,677
Mentions "j'aime": 4,171
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
If you go into advanced stats though Gudbranson is just a plug who is slow and tough. He's only valuable to people who value a big guy that'll drop the gloves. Outside of that Ceci is better. Better skater, better puck mover and as good defensively. Although I would say they are very close all around. I think people are doing the whole, if there is any difference let's blow it out of proportion on this one.

If they could be rated out of a hundred, the difference isn't much. Maybe Ceci is a point or two better. The extra year at 4 million is a problem for Gudbranson though.


Let's put aside for the moment that Toronto is a team desperately in need of some toughness, a quality you need to go deep into the playoffs. When I see him play, I see a blueliner who is very sound defensively, rarely gets beaten by speed due to his experience, and rarely commits giveaways (unlike his mates Lindholm, Fowler and Manson, all of whom can be counted on for one or two howlers every game). Right now you have Holl and Liljegren signed for the right side. The only reasonable RhD (to me) that will be available as a free agent is Dylan Demelo. Even the addition of Demelo doesn't make the right side of your defense look playoff-level, and he will be getting offers from at least six teams that I can think of, reducing your chances of landing him even if Dubas is interested. So you'll be down to acquiring someone by trade. I don't see a lot of competent RhD's making less than $4MM in the trade market. Try naming three.
GuyCaballero a aimé ceci.
2 fév à 13 h 33
#18
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 392
Mentions "j'aime": 31
Quoting: Jack_
Points dont matter for defenseman. Plus/minus is a horrible stat and penalty minutes arent good for anyone. His isolated impact isnt good at all, hes not a good play driver and he gets out shot and out chanced when hes on the ice


Who will take liberties with Rasmus Sandin, if Gudbranson is on the ice at the same time?
Do any of you watch teams that win playoff rounds?
Boston D pairs = Chara/McEvoy, Krug/Brando, Grzelcyk/Lauzon - notice a pattern there?
Leafs need to establish the mover/stopper pairings that help you 1. drive play 2. stop the cycle 3. not play soft
right now the Leafs have Muzzin - where is the backbone if he is not re-signed?
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
2 fév à 13 h 41
#19
First NY Then LA
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 9,677
Mentions "j'aime": 4,171
Quoting: GuyCaballero
Who will take liberties with Rasmus Sandin, if Gudbranson is on the ice at the same time?
Do any of you watch teams that win playoff rounds?
Boston D pairs = Chara/McEvoy, Krug/Brando, Grzelcyk/Lauzon - notice a pattern there?
Leafs need to establish the mover/stopper pairings that help you 1. drive play 2. stop the cycle 3. not play soft
right now the Leafs have Muzzin - where is the backbone if he is not re-signed?


A-f***ing-men.
2 fév à 13 h 44
#20
M. Marincin Truther
Rejoint: fév 2018
Messages: 3,380
Mentions "j'aime": 1,068
Quoting: GuyCaballero
Who will take liberties with Rasmus Sandin, if Gudbranson is on the ice at the same time?
Do any of you watch teams that win playoff rounds?
Boston D pairs = Chara/McEvoy, Krug/Brando, Grzelcyk/Lauzon - notice a pattern there?
Leafs need to establish the mover/stopper pairings that help you 1. drive play 2. stop the cycle 3. not play soft
right now the Leafs have Muzzin - where is the backbone if he is not re-signed?


@OldNYIfan

Muzzin will probably be resigned, gudas is far better and has very good advanced stats. Having toughness is good as long as you have the ability to move the puck. Muzzin is tough but hes good at hockey. Chara isnt good, sandin doesnt need someone to protect him, that's the refs job. That hit from behind should have been a suspension but the leafs got a penalty for sticking up for sandin. Muzzin, holl, dermott and marincin are all good at forcing dump ins and breaking up the cycle. Under babcock the leafs went with the same type of pairs that the Bruins have
Rielly-hainsey
Gardiner-zaitsev
Drrmott-polak. They had a good puck mover and a tough guy kind of thing. The puck mover would be targeted on the forecheck leaving hainsey, zaitsev and polak to move the puck out. Something that they cant do. Guys like chara, carlo, gudbranson and the polak kind of players may be able to regain possession of the puck but once they get it back it's a disaster.
2 fév à 13 h 44
#21
M. Marincin Truther
Rejoint: fév 2018
Messages: 3,380
Mentions "j'aime": 1,068
Oops
2 fév à 13 h 51
#22
M. Marincin Truther
Rejoint: fév 2018
Messages: 3,380
Mentions "j'aime": 1,068
Quoting: OldNYIfan
A-f***ing-men.


Quoting: GuyCaballero
Who will take liberties with Rasmus Sandin, if Gudbranson is on the ice at the same time?
Do any of you watch teams that win playoff rounds?
Boston D pairs = Chara/McEvoy, Krug/Brando, Grzelcyk/Lauzon - notice a pattern there?
Leafs need to establish the mover/stopper pairings that help you 1. drive play 2. stop the cycle 3. not play soft
right now the Leafs have Muzzin - where is the backbone if he is not re-signed?


If they are able to get guys who play the tough style while being able to move the puck up the ice I'm all for it. Muzzin and gudas are able to do that. I dont think using points to evaluate defenseman is good and guys like rielly and barrie are the best to have. Guys like gudbranson arent good because they provide nothing but a physical aspect. I agree with you're balanced pair thing to some extent but I dont think the guys you brought up for the leafs to get are good.

Imo it's best to build your d-core around good all around defenseman. Guys like slavin, dermott or holl. Guys who are good in every aspect of the game but dont cost as much because they dont put up points
2 fév à 14 h 20
#23
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 12,894
Mentions "j'aime": 3,977
Quoting: OldNYIfan
Let's put aside for the moment that Toronto is a team desperately in need of some toughness, a quality you need to go deep into the playoffs. When I see him play, I see a blueliner who is very sound defensively, rarely gets beaten by speed due to his experience, and rarely commits giveaways (unlike his mates Lindholm, Fowler and Manson, all of whom can be counted on for one or two howlers every game). Right now you have Holl and Liljegren signed for the right side. The only reasonable RhD (to me) that will be available as a free agent is Dylan Demelo. Even the addition of Demelo doesn't make the right side of your defense look playoff-level, and he will be getting offers from at least six teams that I can think of, reducing your chances of landing him even if Dubas is interested. So you'll be down to acquiring someone by trade. I don't see a lot of competent RhD's making less than $4MM in the trade market. Try naming three.


The toughness they need isn't a goon. They need to be mentally tougher. They don't need to drop the gloves or hit everyone. They need to be mentally tough enough to take a hit and keep fighting through. They can be that tough. It's just a matter of wanting it. Toughness cost them more than it benefitted them last playoffs
Jack_ a aimé ceci.
2 fév à 14 h 46
#24
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Rejoint: jui 2015
Messages: 30,508
Mentions "j'aime": 7,524
Leafs are trying to make the playoffs this and and maybe more. Revamping the team in February after they seem to adapted to Keefe's play in past 2.5m months, now by this post, bringing in a whole lotta other players who would have get acclimatized to with Leafs. Really the Leafs would worse for the rest of season with these changes and probably worse in the future.
2 fév à 14 h 48
#25
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 392
Mentions "j'aime": 31
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
The toughness they need isn't a goon. They need to be mentally tougher. They don't need to drop the gloves or hit everyone. They need to be mentally tough enough to take a hit and keep fighting through. They can be that tough. It's just a matter of wanting it. Toughness cost them more than it benefitted them last playoffs


difference between tough and rugged...Andreas Johnson tough, Chara rugged and will grind Johnson down over a long series
What is needed is a level of durability AND willingness to finish checks hard in playoffs - something not frequently seen in Toronto
having three D like Manson, Gudranson, Oleksiak might make a Carlo or Chara think twice about finishing really hard on Marner Matthews Nylander - because Pasta, Marchand, Bergeron could eat the consequences
 
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