SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Armchair-GM

Thoughts on trade value of Sandin Liljegren Robertson and Bracco

Créé par: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
Équipe: 2019-20 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 29 janv. 2020
Publié: 29 janv. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Lottery pick for Sandin?
Mid-late 1st round pick for Liljegren?
Mid 1st round pick for Robertson?
Mid 2nd round pick for Bracco?
Rachats de contrats
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2020
Logo de TOR
Logo de CBJ
Logo de TOR
Logo de VGK
Logo de TOR
Logo de CAR
Logo de COL
Logo de SJS
Logo de STL
Logo de WPG
2021
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
2022
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2581 500 000 $80 297 143 $0 $552 500 $1 202 857 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
3 400 000 $3 400 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 4
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
11 634 000 $11 634 000 $
C
UFA - 5
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
10 893 000 $10 893 000 $
AD
UFA - 6
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
2 250 000 $2 250 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
11 000 000 $11 000 000 $
C, AG
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
6 962 366 $6 962 366 $
AD
UFA - 5
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
925 000 $925 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
AG, C, AD
UFA - 4
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
3 200 000 $3 200 000 $
AD
UFA - 3
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
775 000 $775 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
675 000 $675 000 $
C
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
700 000 $700 000 $
C, AD
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
694 444 $694 444 $ (Bonis de performance70 000 $$70K)
AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
700 000 $700 000 $
C
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
842 500 $842 500 $ (Bonis de performance82 500 $$82K)
AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
894 167 $894 167 $
DG
UFA - 3
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance400 000 $$400K)
DD
RFA - 3
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
4 000 000 $4 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
4 500 000 $4 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
700 000 $700 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
863 333 $863 333 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
2 750 000 $2 750 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
700 000 $700 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
675 000 $675 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 3
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 300 000 $5 300 000 $
AD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 250 000 $5 250 000 $
AD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
925 000 $925 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1

Code d'intégration

  • Pour afficher cette équipe sur un autre site Web ou blog, ajoutez ce iFrame à la page appropriée
  • Personnalisez les dimensions dans le code IFrame ci-dessous pour adapter votre site de manière appropriée. Minimum recommandé: 400px.

Texte intégré

Cliquer pour surligner
29 janv. 2020 à 14 h 42
#1
Canes Baby
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2018
Messages: 4,498
Mentions "j'aime": 1,250
Sandin value is 0 because he will never be moved. IDK about Lilj. Bracco, maybe a 3rd rounder?
29 janv. 2020 à 14 h 44
#2
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: déc. 2018
Messages: 735
Mentions "j'aime": 143
Sandin is unmovable you would have to give up a Top pair deference with term with for him, Lilj maybe a Top 4 D with 2-3 Years left? Bracco IMO a 3rd/High 4th hes a 3rd liner at best on 90% of teams.
Leafs_and_Sens_Fan a aimé ceci.
29 janv. 2020 à 14 h 45
#3
Jmcp21
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: avr. 2019
Messages: 104
Mentions "j'aime": 45
Sandin has a lot of value. Not Makar or Heiskanen value, but close.
Liljegren is quite deceptive to me so far. He should be in NHL right now.
Bracco is an AHLer. QUality AHLer, but AHLer still. Worth a 3rd or 4th rd pick at best. Liljegren a 2nd maybe since he is younger.
29 janv. 2020 à 14 h 46
#4
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 24,997
Mentions "j'aime": 7,855
This should be interesting.
29 janv. 2020 à 14 h 47
#5
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 24,997
Mentions "j'aime": 7,855
Quoting: Jmcp
Sandin has a lot of value. Not Makar or Heiskanen value, but close.
Liljegren is quite deceptive to me so far. He should be in NHL right now.
Bracco is an AHLer. QUality AHLer, but AHLer still. Worth a 3rd or 4th rd pick at best. Liljegren a 2nd maybe since he is younger.


The number of defenceman who make the NHL before they are in their early 20's isn't exactly large. To say that Lilly is worth a 2nd not even 3 years after he was drafted and has played 1 game is a joke.
Random2152 a aimé ceci.
29 janv. 2020 à 14 h 49
#6
GM Hockeysaurus Rex
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juill. 2016
Messages: 14,152
Mentions "j'aime": 5,738
They are not moving Robertson or Sandin so basically an unspeakable amount? They would need to receive a massive overpayment for Liljegren to even entertain the idea so actual trade value would be extremely high. Bracco like another prospect of similar type? Dahlen? Not much..
29 janv. 2020 à 14 h 54
#7
Jmcp21
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: avr. 2019
Messages: 104
Mentions "j'aime": 45
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
The number of defenceman who make the NHL before they are in their early 20's isn't exactly large. To say that Lilly is worth a 2nd not even 3 years after he was drafted and has played 1 game is a joke.


I disagree. Look at the players drafted in first rd in 2017, most of them have NHL experience by now. Especially in TOR, where the defense is their primary weakness, Liljegren should be there. He's not done, still room for improvements and all, but at the moment, nobody would invest a 1st in a guy like him unless he prove he is not a bust. Look at Brannstrom, Jokiharju, Hague for comparison.
Price_is_the_goat a aimé ceci.
29 janv. 2020 à 14 h 59
#8
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 24,997
Mentions "j'aime": 7,855
Quoting: Jmcp
I disagree. Look at the players drafted in first rd in 2017, most of them have NHL experience by now. Especially in TOR, where the defense is their primary weakness, Liljegren should be there. He's not done, still room for improvements and all, but at the moment, nobody would invest a 1st in a guy like him unless he prove he is not a bust. Look at Brannstrom, Jokiharju, Hague for comparison.


Okay, what is Cal Foote worth then? Or Pierre Oliver Joseph? And who does Liljegren push out of TO's lineup on the right side? Holl? He's been terrific. Barrie? Not a chance a 20 year old rookie pushes him out right now. Ceci? Well he's fine on the bottom pair. So where would he play without an injury giving him a chance?

There are reasons why most defenders don't get much playing time until they are 22-24 years old. Your lack of patience wouldn't suite young players well. I guess Evan Bouchard is worth a 2nd by now as well.
29 janv. 2020 à 15 h 4
#9
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: avr. 2017
Messages: 6,090
Mentions "j'aime": 1,640
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Okay, what is Cal Foote worth then? Or Pierre Oliver Joseph? And who does Liljegren push out of TO's lineup on the right side? Holl? He's been terrific. Barrie? Not a chance a 20 year old rookie pushes him out right now. Ceci? Well he's fine on the bottom pair. So where would he play without an injury giving him a chance?

There are reasons why most defenders don't get much playing time until they are 22-24 years old. Your lack of patience wouldn't suite young players well. I guess Evan Bouchard is worth a 2nd by now as well.


each players ceiling matters as well. bouchard's ceiling is much higher than liljegren or sandin. and yes, you're correct, dmen do take more time to make it to the nhl
29 janv. 2020 à 15 h 6
#10
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: avr. 2019
Messages: 7,120
Mentions "j'aime": 1,640
It's not really worth discussing beyond Bracco, and highly unlikely any player of that age or quality would be flipped for a crap shoot in the draft. The question should be "who or what player with 3 or more years of term 6 million and under AAV do the above prospect or prospects Aquire?
29 janv. 2020 à 15 h 8
#11
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 24,997
Mentions "j'aime": 7,855
Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
each players ceiling matters as well. bouchard's ceiling is much higher than liljegren or sandin. and yes, you're correct, dmen do take more time to make it to the nhl


Not sure Bouchard is higher than Sandin, He's sort of blowing up all expectations on him. Liljegren was branded as this offensive force but that isn't going to be his game, his ceiling is going to be a defensively responsible two way guy. Like Stralman but maybe a little better offensively.
29 janv. 2020 à 15 h 9
#12
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: avr. 2019
Messages: 7,120
Mentions "j'aime": 1,640
Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
each players ceiling matters as well. bouchard's ceiling is much higher than liljegren or sandin. and yes, you're correct, dmen do take more time to make it to the nhl


I'd disagree, I'm sure Edmonton believes Bouchard's ceiling is much higher but I wouldn't use that as an argument, Oil have been pretty weak on the D side of the puck for awhile now so why haven't we seen Bouchard tear it up at the NHL level
29 janv. 2020 à 15 h 10
#13
#LeafsFever
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 3,785
Mentions "j'aime": 932
I am honestly not sure you can really gauge this by draft picks, because there are other factors at play including ELC cheapness, age, control-ability, potential (especially with D usually developing a few years later than forwards) and several other factors. If you for some reason needed a comp to help you through this problem, or question, look no further than the Sens-Vegas deal. Vegas sent Erik Brännström to Sens for a top-line captain type player with term (contract was signed as part of the deal) and perhaps one of the best two-way players in the NHL. I would consider Brännström on the same level as Sandin, and that's what it took to get him moved. So you can make any argument you want, but proof is in the pudding, which in this case, is not a large sample size, since top prospects aren't traded these days that often. I would argue that Sandin's value would be a young top pairing player, whether that is a D or a forward. The other prospects that you've noted, besides Bracco, fit specific things the Leafs need, which, in addition to their own prospect potential, makes them more "untouchable", regardless of value.
29 janv. 2020 à 15 h 25
#14
Jmcp21
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: avr. 2019
Messages: 104
Mentions "j'aime": 45
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Okay, what is Cal Foote worth then? Or Pierre Oliver Joseph? And who does Liljegren push out of TO's lineup on the right side? Holl? He's been terrific. Barrie? Not a chance a 20 year old rookie pushes him out right now. Ceci? Well he's fine on the bottom pair. So where would he play without an injury giving him a chance?

There are reasons why most defenders don't get much playing time until they are 22-24 years old. Your lack of patience wouldn't suite young players well. I guess Evan Bouchard is worth a 2nd by now as well.


First, Liljegren have been a ''sliding'' prospect since the beginning. At some point, in 2017, he was projected to go top5. Then he dropped until 17OA. That doesn't makes him a bust now, but he is clearly not in the top of the crop of 2017 D class with Makar, Heiskanen, Brannstrom and Jokiharju. You would clearly invest a 1st rd pick in those four guys. But for guys like Liljegren, P-O Joseph, Cal Foote, Vaakanainen, they are not worth a 1st until they have more NHL experience. They are projects at this point.
jamgon33 a aimé ceci.
29 janv. 2020 à 15 h 31
#15
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 24,997
Mentions "j'aime": 7,855
Quoting: Jmcp
First, Liljegren have been a ''sliding'' prospect since the beginning. At some point, in 2017, he was projected to go top5. Then he dropped until 17OA. That doesn't makes him a bust now, but he is clearly not in the top of the crop of 2017 D class with Makar, Heiskanen, Brannstrom and Jokiharju. You would clearly invest a 1st rd pick in those four guys. But for guys like Liljegren, P-O Joseph, Cal Foote, Vaakanainen, they are not worth a 1st until they have more NHL experience. They are projects at this point.


You just don't move any of those guys. Seriously though Jokiharju is not at the same level as those other guys you mentioned. Even Brannstrom has only played 30 games. I think you are selling Liljegren very short.
29 janv. 2020 à 15 h 39
#16
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: janv. 2019
Messages: 1,351
Mentions "j'aime": 445
Modifié 29 janv. 2020 à 15 h 45
Quoting: MG1986
I am honestly not sure you can really gauge this by draft picks, because there are other factors at play including ELC cheapness, age, control-ability, potential (especially with D usually developing a few years later than forwards) and several other factors. If you for some reason needed a comp to help you through this problem, or question, look no further than the Sens-Vegas deal. Vegas sent Erik Brännström to Sens for a top-line captain type player with term (contract was signed as part of the deal) and perhaps one of the best two-way players in the NHL. I would consider Brännström on the same level as Sandin, and that's what it took to get him moved. So you can make any argument you want, but proof is in the pudding, which in this case, is not a large sample size, since top prospects aren't traded these days that often. I would argue that Sandin's value would be a young top pairing player, whether that is a D or a forward. The other prospects that you've noted, besides Bracco, fit specific things the Leafs need, which, in addition to their own prospect potential, makes them more "untouchable", regardless of value.


I don't think neither Brannstrom nor Sandin are worth as much as Mark Stone. The value might be close but its not on par. Sens only got Brannstrom, cap dump and a mid 2nd rd pick because Stone lost some trade value. Although I do agree Sandin and Brannstrom have pretty much the same value.
29 janv. 2020 à 15 h 50
#17
Isles7
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 12,222
Mentions "j'aime": 5,299
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Not sure Bouchard is higher than Sandin, He's sort of blowing up all expectations on him. Liljegren was branded as this offensive force but that isn't going to be his game, his ceiling is going to be a defensively responsible two way guy. Like Stralman but maybe a little better offensively.


Bouchard and sandin are very different players so it’s hard to say who will be better. Sandin is like muzzin and Bouchard is like Brent burns. Both look like locks to be top 4 guys, but they need to work on their skating and defensive positioning.
29 janv. 2020 à 15 h 56
#18
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 24,997
Mentions "j'aime": 7,855
Quoting: Isles777
Bouchard and sandin are very different players so it’s hard to say who will be better. Sandin is like muzzin and Bouchard is like Brent burns. Both look like locks to be top 4 guys, but they need to work on their skating and defensive positioning.


Not sure you have watched Sandin play after that comment. He's so smooth, crazy poise for a guy his age, sees the ice like a 10 year vet and is a terrific skater. He looks like a guy who could be an elite #1 dman in the not too distant future. Bouchard will be good too. I don't mean to make him sound like anything other than a high impact prospect. I was more commenting on him when a guy said Liljegren isn't much because he's only played 1 NHL game. Like that means something when a kid is still 20.
29 janv. 2020 à 16 h 2
#19
Isles7
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 12,222
Mentions "j'aime": 5,299
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Not sure you have watched Sandin play after that comment. He's so smooth, crazy poise for a guy his age, sees the ice like a 10 year vet and is a terrific skater. He looks like a guy who could be an elite #1 dman in the not too distant future. Bouchard will be good too. I don't mean to make him sound like anything other than a high impact prospect. I was more commenting on him when a guy said Liljegren isn't much because he's only played 1 NHL game. Like that means something when a kid is still 20.


I watched him play at the world juniors and I’ve watched him play the last few games since the isles are on their 10 day break. He’s an average skater at best. I think sandin is very good, but elite #1 Dman in the not too distant future? Man I get it’s exciting to see a prospect that was picked 29 be in the conversation to go in the top 12in a redraft, but I’d temper expectations a bit.
29 janv. 2020 à 16 h 2
#20
torontos finest
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juill. 2019
Messages: 9,546
Mentions "j'aime": 11,169
Sandin, Liljegren and Robertson are not getting moved unless they are apart of a trade for a top guy. You actually need younger players to fill out a team, you can't give away every prospect.

Bracco might get moved at the deadline in a package if they plan on improving a section of their roster. Straight up, I think a third round pick would be reasonable.
29 janv. 2020 à 16 h 7
#21
MisstheWhalers
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: janv. 2019
Messages: 23,550
Mentions "j'aime": 12,305
Quoting: Boomer125
It's not really worth discussing beyond Bracco, and highly unlikely any player of that age or quality would be flipped for a crap shoot in the draft. The question should be "who or what player with 3 or more years of term 6 million and under AAV do the above prospect or prospects Aquire?


Dumba I'm guessing.
29 janv. 2020 à 16 h 10
#22
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: avr. 2017
Messages: 6,090
Mentions "j'aime": 1,640
Quoting: Boomer125
I'd disagree, I'm sure Edmonton believes Bouchard's ceiling is much higher but I wouldn't use that as an argument, Oil have been pretty weak on the D side of the puck for awhile now so why haven't we seen Bouchard tear it up at the NHL level


every player is different. just because player A is in the nhl, while Player B isn't doesn't mean A is better. Bouchard still has the higher potential than sandin. sandin is playing sheltered minutes. watch him go against a tampa or a boston and than we'll see the "ceiling". wayy to early to question why isn't one blowing the roof off, while the other is
29 janv. 2020 à 16 h 10
#23
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: avr. 2017
Messages: 6,090
Mentions "j'aime": 1,640
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Not sure Bouchard is higher than Sandin, He's sort of blowing up all expectations on him. Liljegren was branded as this offensive force but that isn't going to be his game, his ceiling is going to be a defensively responsible two way guy. Like Stralman but maybe a little better offensively.


evan bouchard is expected to be a number 1 defenseman. sandin will never be a number 1 defenseman. a few games doesn't determine their ceilings.
29 janv. 2020 à 16 h 11
#24
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 24,997
Mentions "j'aime": 7,855
Quoting: Isles777
I watched him play at the world juniors and I’ve watched him play the last few games since the isles are on their 10 day break. He’s an average skater at best. I think sandin is very good, but elite #1 Dman in the not too distant future? Man I get it’s exciting to see a prospect that was picked 29 be in the conversation to go in the top 12in a redraft, but I’d temper expectations a bit.


Its not the points that excite me, its how he plays. Little things he'll do that remind me a lot of Thomas Kaberle but a better skater. He'll give a quick look and a shoulder nod and then cut back and slink off to the corner away from the oncoming forechecker. He does little things like that all the time, most fans won't notice but to see a 19 year old doing things like that already is impressive. Also he is definitely an above average skater, much like Nylander, he's so smooth it looks effortless and some people don't realize how quick he actually is.
29 janv. 2020 à 16 h 16
#25
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 24,997
Mentions "j'aime": 7,855
Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
every player is different. just because player A is in the nhl, while Player B isn't doesn't mean A is better. Bouchard still has the higher potential than sandin. sandin is playing sheltered minutes. watch him go against a tampa or a boston and than we'll see the "ceiling". wayy to early to question why isn't one blowing the roof off, while the other is


I am sure there are many on here that definitely don't want Sandin to pan out, due to the fact they hate the Leafs more than they like hockey. I completely agree though that a guy playing sooner doesn't mean he's better. Larsson played in the NHL right away because he was the "most NHL ready" prospect in his draft. It doesn't mean much if your ceiling isn't very high. I think Bouchard is going to be a really good player. Not sure how good but he's going to be good. For me, I love watching Sandin play because of all the little things he does. It's so impressive to see such poise in a young guy, that is going to be his hallmark, under pressure he'll make subtle little moves that many won't see but will make a huge difference on the ice. He's going to be a terrific player for sure.
Price_is_the_goat a aimé ceci.
 
Répondre
To create a post please Login or S'inscrire
Question:
Options:
Ajouter une option
Soumettre le sondage