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Pittsburgh Penguins signed Marcus Pettersson (5 Years / $4,025,175 AAV)

Was this a good signing?
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28 jan à 11 h 55
#51
The Enlightened One
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Quoting: MadLin27
I would call this an overpay now, but could easily turn into a bargain in 2 years.


I just don't see the potential personally. I think he tops out as a 4-5 Dman (too good for bottom pair but not good enough to be a top 4 guy). That makes this an overpay.
28 jan à 12 h 00
#52
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"You keep citing that he is in his second year as if that is that is a large sample size that proves him in anyway more than Holl. Toi means very little, role matters a ton. Holl is on our shut down pair playing top comp each night, Peterson is not. I will say it again, I like him as a defender, but he is a bottom 4 guy who can play on your second pair in a pinch and you paid him like a top 4 guy. That is an overpay.

And Holl IS on our shut down pair. That isn't an opinion, rather a fact. Citing that isn't being a homer lol."


I keep citing it because Holl hasn't even played a single season, while Pettersson is 5 years younger and is having his 2nd straight solid season. Compare him to Rasmus Andersson. Thats a 1000000% way better comparison

@random2152
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28 jan à 12 h 00
#53
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Looks decent to me. Considering all factors involved in the decision.

I think the phrases like "massive overpay" get used too frivolously on here. I think there is a valid argument to be said that its lower or higher than it "should" be but not by much and certainly not enough to get your panties in a squeeze about.
28 jan à 12 h 00
#54
Chiggy
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Quoting: Random2152
Damn dude, comparing him to another player is Leafs homerism all of a sudden?!? Christ we just have the holy trinity of idiots here don't we. Pharrow, Hockeyfanatic, and yourself.


Comparing him to a player in a not-at-all comparable situation just to bring your team into it certain is. And it shows your ignorance.

A valid comparison? A similar-aged defensemen. Rasmus Andersson for example, who got more money and has worse underlying numbers.

If you want to do "but what about the Leafs," Travis Dermott is a guy who is the same age and will probably be getting more than Holl based on age and potential (if signed long-term). If he signs short term, then that won't be the case. This is how contracts work for young players on an upward trajectory.

Take your L, man. You said something stupid.
28 jan à 12 h 03
#55
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Quoting: Chigurrhh
Comparing him to a player in a not-at-all comparable situation just to bring your team into it certain is. And it shows your ignorance.

A valid comparison? A similar-aged defensemen. Rasmus Andersson for example, who got more money and has worse underlying numbers.

If you want to do "but what about the Leafs," Travis Dermott is a guy who is the same age and will probably be getting more than Holl based on age and potential (if signed long-term).

Take your L, man. You said something stupid.


I guess were idiots because we have a difference in opinion lol. JR should probably learn from Dubas since the leafs have had so much success and signing all of their players to amazing deals
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28 jan à 12 h 03
#56
Chiggy
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Quoting: Random2152
I just don't see the potential personally. I think he tops out as a 4-5 Dman (too good for bottom pair but not good enough to be a top 4 guy). That makes this an overpay.


He's currently a solid number 4 at age-23. That's what he is right now. Really showing that you have no clue what you are talking about.
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28 jan à 12 h 05
#57
Chiggy
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
I guess were idiots because we have a difference in opinion lol. JR should probably learn from Dubas since the leafs have had so much success and signing all of their players to amazing deals


Dubas has done a lot of good. And he's also had some major blunders. Giving up a first to get rid of Marleau's contract and using that cap space on Cody Ceci is absurd.
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28 jan à 12 h 09
#58
gregb569
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Quoting: Random2152
Damn dude, comparing him to another player is Leafs homerism all of a sudden?!? Christ we just have the holy trinity of idiots here don't we. Pharrow, Hockeyfanatic, and yourself.




You keep citing that he is in his second year as if that is that is a large sample size that proves him in anyway more than Holl. Toi means very little, role matters a ton. Holl is on our shut down pair playing top comp each night, Peterson is not. I will say it again, I like him as a defender, but he is a bottom 4 guy who can play on your second pair in a pinch and you paid him like a top 4 guy. That is an overpay.

And Holl IS on our shut down pair. That isn't an opinion, rather a fact. Citing that isn't being a homer lol.



1)True
2)Debatable
3)Justin Holl is our Shutdown Dman playing against McDavids. I very much doubt that Peterson has a bigger role.
4)Maybe, but I don't see it
5)No he didn't. He took his QA the same way Mango did last year to get a larger sample size and try for a bigger contract now. It was a calculated bet on himself, not a discount. It also has no relevance to this contract.



I actually agree with this. My contention is that they paid too much, even for a bet. Should have been 3-4@3 ish.


Is Holl really your top 4 shut down guy?
Reilly
Muzz
Barrie
Ceci

all play 3+ more mins a night than him..

Ceci
Muzz
Marincin
Reilly

also play more PK time than him..?
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28 jan à 12 h 10
#59
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Quoting: Chigurrhh
Dubas has done a lot of good. And he's also had some major blunders. Giving up a first to get rid of Marleau's contract and using that cap space on Cody Ceci is absurd.


He used the cap space to sign Kapanen and Johnsson. Ceci is making the same as Zaitsev and he was traded because he had a shorter contract.
28 jan à 12 h 16
#60
Chiggy
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Quoting: mondo
He used the cap space to sign Kapanen and Johnsson. Ceci is making the same as Zaitsev and he was traded because he had a shorter contract.


It doesn't matter how you want to spin it. He paid a huge amount to get rid of a $6,250,000 cap hit. And he's paying $4.5 million to his worst D man, which is actually a higher number than what his qualifying offer with Ottawa was. Could have taken the guy to arbitration and turned down the award, or flipped him to another team. Ceci is very bad.
28 jan à 12 h 25
#61
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Quoting: Chigurrhh
It doesn't matter how you want to spin it. He paid a huge amount to get rid of a $6,250,000 cap hit. And he's paying $4.5 million to his worst D man, which is actually a higher number than what his qualifying offer with Ottawa was. Could have taken the guy to arbitration and turned down the award, or flipped him to another team. Ceci is very bad.


"It doesn't matter how you want to spin it. " what lmao. It's not a spin, it's what actually happened. The Marleau trade had nothing to do with the Ceci trade.

Ceci is bad, sure, whatever, but Toronto's only dealing with him for this season while Ottawa has to live with the defensive crater of Zaitsev for another four. Should have Dubas not have been as nice to Ceci? Yeah, I guess so. But I imagine they were hoping to rely on him to fill a roster spot for the position until someone more favorable came along.
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28 jan à 12 h 27
#62
Chiggy
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Modifié 28 jan à 12 h 33
Quoting: mondo
"It doesn't matter how you want to spin it. " what lmao. It's not a spin, it's what actually happened. The Marleau trade had nothing to do with the Ceci trade.

Ceci is bad, sure, whatever, but Toronto's only dealing with him for this season while Ottawa has to live with the defensive crater of Zaitsev for another four. Should have Dubas not have been as nice to Ceci? Yeah, I guess so. But I imagine they were hoping to rely on him to fill a roster spot for the position until someone more favorable came along.


"But I imagine they were hoping to rely on him to fill a roster spot for the position until someone more favorable came along". lol

No, the point is that they placed a premium on clearing out that much cap space while at the same time using 4.5 million on a bad player that they could have avoided paying after getting rid of Zaitsev.
28 jan à 12 h 32
#63
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Quoting: Random2152
Damn dude, comparing him to another player is Leafs homerism all of a sudden?!? Christ we just have the holy trinity of idiots here don't we. Pharrow, Hockeyfanatic, and yourself.




You keep citing that he is in his second year as if that is that is a large sample size that proves him in anyway more than Holl. Toi means very little, role matters a ton. Holl is on our shut down pair playing top comp each night, Peterson is not. I will say it again, I like him as a defender, but he is a bottom 4 guy who can play on your second pair in a pinch and you paid him like a top 4 guy. That is an overpay.

And Holl IS on our shut down pair. That isn't an opinion, rather a fact. Citing that isn't being a homer lol.



1)True
2)Debatable
3)Justin Holl is our Shutdown Dman playing against McDavids. I very much doubt that Peterson has a bigger role.
4)Maybe, but I don't see it
5)No he didn't. He took his QA the same way Mango did last year to get a larger sample size and try for a bigger contract now. It was a calculated bet on himself, not a discount. It also has no relevance to this contract.



I actually agree with this. My contention is that they paid too much, even for a bet. Should have been 3-4@3 ish.


It's the going rate man. Believe me it could have been much much worse. Look at Chabot who got 8 million.
It's not like he signed a deal like Carlo where Carlo is just trying to get to or as close to FA as he can. He signed past getting a UFA year.
Especially after taking this year at a discount. He should be making more than what he is right now. You look at what he got this year. If you think 3, ok, that's 2 million spread out over 5 years, it's 400k off. So he's at like 3.625 a year on that 5 year deal on basically a 6 year deal. It's a great deal.
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28 jan à 12 h 39
#64
The Enlightened One
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Quoting: gregb569
Is Holl really your top 4 shut down guy?
Reilly
Muzz
Barrie
Ceci

all play 3+ more mins a night than him..

Ceci
Muzz
Marincin
Reilly

also play more PK time than him..?


Yeah its:
Muzz-Holl
Mo-Barrie
Dermott-Ceci

toi is not a good indicator, usage is. Also our injuries have been messing with the toi's this year

Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
"You keep citing that he is in his second year as if that is that is a large sample size that proves him in anyway more than Holl. Toi means very little, role matters a ton. Holl is on our shut down pair playing top comp each night, Peterson is not. I will say it again, I like him as a defender, but he is a bottom 4 guy who can play on your second pair in a pinch and you paid him like a top 4 guy. That is an overpay.

And Holl IS on our shut down pair. That isn't an opinion, rather a fact. Citing that isn't being a homer lol."


I keep citing it because Holl hasn't even played a single season, while Pettersson is 5 years younger and is having his 2nd straight solid season. Compare him to Rasmus Andersson. Thats a 1000000% way better comparison


You are really making a big deal out of a small number of games man. Congrats, your guy has played 1.5 solid seasons. That isn't exactly enough to make definitive claims any more than Holl's record is.

Quoting: Chigurrhh
He's currently a solid number 4 at age-23. That's what he is right now. Really showing that you have no clue what you are talking about.


That is exactly what my comment said he is. A 4-5. We just agreed yet you think that makes me an idiot?

Quoting: Chigurrhh
It doesn't matter how you want to spin it. He paid a huge amount to get rid of a $6,250,000 cap hit. And he's paying $4.5 million to his worst D man, which is actually a higher number than what his qualifying offer with Ottawa was. Could have taken the guy to arbitration and turned down the award, or flipped him to another team. Ceci is very bad.


Then you say **** like this.... good god man. You spin **** and accuse others explaining reality of spinning. Take you head out of your ass, you seem to be enjoying the smell.

Quoting: Chigurrhh
1)Comparing him to a player in a not-at-all comparable situation just to bring your team into it certain is. And it shows your ignorance.

2)A valid comparison? A similar-aged defensemen. Rasmus Andersson for example, who got more money and has worse underlying numbers.

3)If you want to do "but what about the Leafs," Travis Dermott is a guy who is the same age and will probably be getting more than Holl based on age and potential (if signed long-term). If he signs short term, then that won't be the case. This is how contracts work for young players on an upward trajectory.

4)Take your L, man. You said something stupid.


1) situations are different, but they are comparable players
2)Andersson is massively overrated on this site. Look at his contract thread I said he hadn't earned what he got either.
3) Dermott hasn't been extended so we don't have a comparable for him yet, but I see far more upside in Dermott than in Peterson and to even compare them really shows that you have no clue what you are talking about.
4)Nothing you have said here comes remotely close to an actual, logical argument. Not once in your entire rant have you once even flirted with a rational thought, but you still say others are stupid.
Something-something Dunning Kruger.
28 jan à 12 h 39
#65
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Quoting: Chigurrhh
"But I imagine they were hoping to rely on him to fill a roster spot for the position until someone more favorable came along". lol

No, the point is that they placed a premium on clearing out that much cap space while at the same time using 4.5 million on a bad player that they could have avoided paying after getting rid of Zaitsev.


Kapanen and Johnsson are greater value than an first pick but go off. We all know that every draft pick pans out.

The point is they got out from under Lou's overhangs, and they're relying on Ceci for a defensive position instead of yeeting some AHLer into the position.
28 jan à 12 h 43
#66
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Quoting: Random2152



You are really making a big deal out of a small number of games man. Congrats, your guy has played 1.5 solid seasons. That isn't exactly enough to make definitive claims any more than Holl's record is.

.


Because you are trying to compare a player who has somewhat of a baseline to go off to a player who has played less than a full season. You cant be this stupid. You saying Holl is a shutdown dman, but hasn't even played a full season. Makes no sense homer
28 jan à 12 h 44
#67
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Anyways the contract is fine. I don't think it's a steal but I don't think it's an overpayment. Sorry for this controversial opinion.
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28 jan à 12 h 45
#68
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Quoting: pharrow
It's the going rate man. Believe me it could have been much much worse. Look at Chabot who got 8 million.
It's not like he signed a deal like Carlo where Carlo is just trying to get to or as close to FA as he can. He signed past getting a UFA year.
Especially after taking this year at a discount. He should be making more than what he is right now. You look at what he got this year. If you think 3, ok, that's 2 million spread out over 5 years, it's 400k off. So he's at like 3.625 a year on that 5 year deal on basically a 6 year deal. It's a great deal.


I think my biggest issue with the deal is that I don't see him being more than a 4-5Dman. For a player of that calibre, this contract is a large overpay.
Why don't I see him being more than that, well his age for one (the ageing curve tops out much earlier than most would expect, so he is mostly done developing) and this:




Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Because you are trying to compare a player who has somewhat of a baseline to go off to a player who has played less than a full season. You cant be this stupid. You saying Holl is a shutdown dman, but hasn't even played a full season. Makes no sense homer


That doesn't logically follow... Amazing that someone can be as stupid as yourself while thinking you are superior. Absolutely amazing.
28 jan à 12 h 47
#69
Chiggy
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Quoting: Random2152

That is exactly what my comment said he is. A 4-5. We just agreed yet you think that makes me an idiot?

Dermott hasn't been extended so we don't have a comparable for him yet, but I see far more upside in Dermott than in Peterson and to even compare them really shows that you have no clue what you are talking about.


No, you said that his ceiling is a 4/5 and I said that's he is a 4 at age 23 (implying that he should be that at the very least). The fact that you think we are in agreement leads me to doubt your ability to read. Seriously man, just take your L.

Ah, a homer take on Dermott. Nice.

Me: "Young D get paid more than an equivalent player at age 27"

You: Freaks out about mentioning Pettersson and Dermott in the same sentence.

Really showing your ass on this one.
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28 jan à 12 h 47
#70
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Quoting: Random2152



That doesn't logically follow... Amazing that someone can be as stupid as yourself while thinking you are superior. Absolutely amazing.


Which part? The part where youre claiming someone is a shutdown dman without even playing a full season? Or the part youre comparing 2 players who are in 2 different situations instead of 2 players who are more similar?
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28 jan à 12 h 49
#71
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Quoting: Chigurrhh
No, you said that is his ceiling and I said that's what he is right now. The fact that you think we are in agreement leads me to doubt your ability to read.


*Ahem*
He IS roughly at his ceiling.
war-basic-chart.png?w=615

Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Which part? The part where youre claiming someone is a shutdown dman without even playing a full season? Or the part youre comparing 2 players who are in 2 different situations instead of 2 players who are more similar?


You do understand that being a shut down Dman has nothing to do with how long you've been in the league right?
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28 jan à 12 h 50
#72
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Quoting: Random2152




You do understand that being a shut down Dman has nothing to do with how long you've been in the league right?


You do understand that you look stupid making that claim for a 28 year old in his first season right? Typical leafs fan lmao
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28 jan à 12 h 52
#73
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Typical leafs fan lmao


you've got him on the ropes dude. now bring up 1967 and the two cups pittsburgh won with kessel.
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28 jan à 12 h 52
#74
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
You do understand that you look stupid making that claim for a 28 year old in his first season right? Typical leafs fan lmao


So no, you do not understand that they have no relation. Good to know.
28 jan à 12 h 53
#75
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Quoting: mondo
you've got him on the ropes dude. now bring up 1967 and the two cups pittsburgh won with kessel.


Dont have to. You did it for me.
 
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