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Perhaps moving Johnsson is a wise move

Équipe: 2019-20 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 29 nov. 2019
Publié: 29 nov. 2019
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
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I was pondering what TO will do with the lineup once everyone is healthy and its getting tough to decide what makes the best lineup.

Mikheyev has been good, as has Engval, Gauthier, Spezza and Hyman is his usual hard working self.

Who gets put down the lineup when Marner and Moore are healthy? Where does Moore fit in? Has Engval earned a long term spot?

Looking at everything, I wonder if you could move Johnsson for defensive help. Perhaps Philly would be interested.

I am sure there will need to be some changes made to balance out the cap and stuff but with the emergence of Mikheyev, and Engval, I think Johnsson could be moved without missing a beat.
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29 nov. 2019 à 12 h 51
#1
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Myers is off limits. Braun we can discuss

We also don’t need wingers.
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29 nov. 2019 à 12 h 51
#2
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Quoting: Brigid1011
Myers is off limits. Braun we can discuss


lol. If you want top 6 talent you need to give up a player who is actually good.
29 nov. 2019 à 12 h 53
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Johnsson is the only top 6 LW in the entire organization. He brings a net front presence and is a pest. I wouldn't move him at all. Mik, Moore and Hyman are all versions of the same player but they aren't as skilled an Mango is. Necc is a centre so his spot is goats former spot.
29 nov. 2019 à 12 h 54
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Quoting: Random2152
lol. If you want top 6 talent you need to give up a player who is actually good.


We don’t need wingers. Our top 9 is set and Patrick
isn’t even factored in. If anything we need to add a young right handed defender to the mix not move one like Myers out for a winger we don’t need.
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29 nov. 2019 à 12 h 54
#5
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Quoting: Brigid1011
Myers is off limits. Braun we can discuss

We also don’t need wingers.


It was a throw in to balance the cap. I don't care about Braun at all, he's not good. Myers on the other hand, I would pay a great deal for. I was looking at your LW and think you could use a fast offensive guy and I think Johnsson could be pretty expendable. Now before anyone says it, no Myers does not start with Nylander, that is just silly. I think Myers is going to be a really good player but he'll be something like Chris Tanev which is a good two way guy who'll never be your star but a really good depth piece to support the stars.
29 nov. 2019 à 12 h 55
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Giroux/Frost/TK
Lindblom/Coots/Voracek
Farabee/Hayes/Patrick*
JVR/Laughton/Raffl

Provorov/Niskanen
Sanheim/Myers
Ghost/ (open)

Hagg (RFA)
Morin*

Hart
(open)


How does moving Myers for a winger make any sense for us based on next years projected roster?
29 nov. 2019 à 12 h 56
#7
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This could be a possibility. However, Johnsson had an superb playoff performance with the Toronto Marlies when they won the AHL Calder Cup a couple of years ago and playing for Sheldon Keefe. My guess is that both Keefe and Dubas will be very reluntant to trade him because he has big time offensive abilities and upside. I think Kapanan would be an easier player than Johnsson to replace in the line-up so I think he is more likely to be traded before Johnsson for defensive help if necessary.
29 nov. 2019 à 13 h 6
#8
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Honestly the only move I think we should make would be JVR or Voracek. I don’t see JVR as moveable with that contract and would expect Voracek to be an easier move. Voracek for a young winger and a right d prospect would be my preference.
29 nov. 2019 à 13 h 7
#9
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Quoting: Random2152
Johnsson is the only top 6 LW in the entire organization. He brings a net front presence and is a pest. I wouldn't move him at all. Mik, Moore and Hyman are all versions of the same player but they aren't as skilled an Mango is. Necc is a centre so his spot is goats former spot.


Johnsson isn't a net front presence, he gets pushed away to easily. He's good and I like him but I think our left side may actually be deeper than our right side is. Mikheyev looks really good, he's fast, has good hands and is also way bigger than Mango. Kerfoot is great and can play LW. Hyman does so much more than people seem to realize with his grit, speed and determination. Gauthier has earned his spot and I have like Spezza at centre with two really fast wingers who push the defence back which gives Spezza space that he can exploit. Engval is probably best suited as a winger, he's really not good at faceoffs, but he's got a nice shot and is fast so put him on the LW. I don't think there is any problems on the left side. On the right side, there isn't exactly a lot of options after Marner, Kapanen and Nylander. After them you have guys on their off wing in Moore, or Mikheyev and then shore or Timashov.

My thought is Johnsson just isn't that much better than any of these other guys and while they are pushing for more playing time, why not move Johnsson for a controllable asset that improves our list of players that need to be protected in the expansion draft.
29 nov. 2019 à 13 h 7
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Quoting: Brigid1011
Giroux/Frost/TK
Lindblom/Coots/Voracek
Farabee/Hayes/Patrick*
JVR/Laughton/Raffl

Provorov/Niskanen
Sanheim/Myers
Ghost/ (open)

Hagg (RFA)
Morin*

Hart
(open)


How does moving Myers for a winger make any sense for us based on next years projected roster?


You get Ceci and can sign him for less than 4 million, probably could get him at 3x3.5 and he's been pretty good.
29 nov. 2019 à 13 h 14
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I’m not sure if Philly is the right trade partner based on who we have to move and Dubas has been pretty vocal about not wanting to move anymore picks for the time being. I do agree that when we get fully healthy Johnsson appears to be the most likely to move for defensive help. Johnsson, Kerfoot, and Ceci I think are the Leafs realistic trade assets to improve our Defense, hopefully get under cap enough to keep a 23 man roster, and doesn’t severely diminish our offense. I also am interested in an upgrade at the backup goalie because I’m worried what happens to us if Andersen gets hurt.
I have a buddy that’s an Edmonton fan and we were talking about a trade that was your exact proposal from the Leafs minus the picks for Larsson. He wanted to throw in Smith because he’s real low on him right now and I wondered if could convince them to sell low on Puljujarvi, but not a deal breaker
29 nov. 2019 à 13 h 16
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Quoting: BigAnderson
I’m not sure if Philly is the right trade partner based on who we have to move and Dubas has been pretty vocal about not wanting to move anymore picks for the time being. I do agree that when we get fully healthy Johnsson appears to be the most likely to move for defensive help. Johnsson, Kerfoot, and Ceci I think are the Leafs realistic trade assets to improve our Defense, hopefully get under cap enough to keep a 23 man roster, and doesn’t severely diminish our offense. I also am interested in an upgrade at the backup goalie because I’m worried what happens to us if Andersen gets hurt.
I have a buddy that’s an Edmonton fan and we were talking about a trade that was your exact proposal from the Leafs minus the picks for Larsson. He wanted to throw in Smith because he’s real low on him right now and I wondered if could convince them to sell low on Puljujarvi, but not a deal breaker


Larsson sucks. I want someone who's actually going to be good.

I'd maybe consider Johnsson for Larsson and Puljujarvi and then have a conditional 2nd rounder based on some condition for Pulli, like if he makes the team next year or something. If he doesn't we get a 2nd.
29 nov. 2019 à 13 h 34
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Quoting: Random2152
lol. If you want top 6 talent you need to give up a player who is actually good.


where did he say he wants top 6 talent????
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29 nov. 2019 à 13 h 36
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Not enough for Myers. And I mean not enough talent back going back. Right now it appears to be a standard quantity for quality swap.
29 nov. 2019 à 13 h 41
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
You get Ceci and can sign him for less than 4 million, probably could get him at 3x3.5 and he's been pretty good.


Zero chance I’d swap out Myers for Ceci on our blueline going forward. Less than zero.
29 nov. 2019 à 13 h 49
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To me Johnsson is an easy guy to move on from. He doesn't produce enough to make him invaluable to the offense, nor does he defend well enough to give him value in a checking role or to earn him PK minutes.
29 nov. 2019 à 13 h 57
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Quoting: exo2769
Not enough for Myers. And I mean not enough talent back going back. Right now it appears to be a standard quantity for quality swap.


A top 6 winger for a guy who projects to be a middle pair defender who could move higher in the lineup in a pinch seems pretty even. Braun and Ceci are just throw ins for the cap.
29 nov. 2019 à 14 h 33
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
Larsson sucks. I want someone who's actually going to be good.

I'd maybe consider Johnsson for Larsson and Puljujarvi and then have a conditional 2nd rounder based on some condition for Pulli, like if he makes the team next year or something. If he doesn't we get a 2nd.


Larsson definitely doesn’t suck lol and is a massive upgrade over Ceci. He’s the type of defensive defensemen that is the perfect partner to fully unleash Rielly to do what he does best without having to worry about covering for his partner losing position. Are there better players that would fit? Absolutely, but they’ll be harder to acquire since Edmonton and Toronto look like natural trade partners. Toronto has secondary scoring to spare that Edmonton needs and they have extra defenders with the Jones, Benning, Bear proving they can hang in the NHL and Bouchard in a couple years. Larsson from Oilers or Manson from Ducks are two players who fill a need in TO who’s teams needs meet what Leafs have to spare
29 nov. 2019 à 14 h 39
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I don’t watch many Leafs games and but the way I see it, Johnsson is older, under contract for longer and plays a position the Leafs need more of. I’d trade Kapanen, who has less value to the Leafs, given his position and skill-set. He’s younger as well, which is good for his development and would help in trying to pry away a more valuable piece from a rebuilding team.

Maybe that’s a load of crap, but that’s how I see it, with my limited perspective
29 nov. 2019 à 15 h 1
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Quoting: ForsbergForVezina
I don’t watch many Leafs games and but the way I see it, Johnsson is older, under contract for longer and plays a position the Leafs need more of. I’d trade Kapanen, who has less value to the Leafs, given his position and skill-set. He’s younger as well, which is good for his development and would help in trying to pry away a more valuable piece from a rebuilding team.

Maybe that’s a load of crap, but that’s how I see it, with my limited perspective

Kapanan’s speed and the fact he’s upped his physical play this year makes him more valuable to Toronto. He’s the perfect third line winger for the Leafs and can fill in higher up the lineup when needed
29 nov. 2019 à 15 h 25
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Quoting: BigAnderson
Larsson definitely doesn’t suck lol and is a massive upgrade over Ceci. He’s the type of defensive defensemen that is the perfect partner to fully unleash Rielly to do what he does best without having to worry about covering for his partner losing position. Are there better players that would fit? Absolutely, but they’ll be harder to acquire since Edmonton and Toronto look like natural trade partners. Toronto has secondary scoring to spare that Edmonton needs and they have extra defenders with the Jones, Benning, Bear proving they can hang in the NHL and Bouchard in a couple years. Larsson from Oilers or Manson from Ducks are two players who fill a need in TO who’s teams needs meet what Leafs have to spare


Apart from the fact that Larsson isn't a shut down defenceman, isn't good at moving the puck and possession wise has always been below average. Larsson isn't and never has been that good of a player. He's a bottom 6 guy. Is probably a great bottom pair defender and can play 2nd pair of need be. He was caved in last year when asked to be the teams top guy after Klefbom got hurt. He isn't an upgrade over Ceci especially in Keefe's system. Larsson is and has always been overrated
29 nov. 2019 à 15 h 55
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
Apart from the fact that Larsson isn't a shut down defenceman, isn't good at moving the puck and possession wise has always been below average. Larsson isn't and never has been that good of a player. He's a bottom 6 guy. Is probably a great bottom pair defender and can play 2nd pair of need be. He was caved in last year when asked to be the teams top guy after Klefbom got hurt. He isn't an upgrade over Ceci especially in Keefe's system. Larsson is and has always been overrated

You are putting to much faith in Keefe’s system being the fix all to Toronto’s defensive deficiencies and putting all the blame on Babcock. A small sample size yes, but the best offensively skilled team Keefe’s Leafs have faced were Colorado and they had us pinned in our own end for long stretches in the second and third. Fact is Leafs have no one on the backend that can effectively knock someone of the puck down low or clear the front of the net. No system change changes that and Ceci has actually looked worse for Keefe than he did before, he needs to be upgraded upon ASAP
29 nov. 2019 à 16 h 43
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Quoting: BigAnderson
You are putting to much faith in Keefe’s system being the fix all to Toronto’s defensive deficiencies and putting all the blame on Babcock. A small sample size yes, but the best offensively skilled team Keefe’s Leafs have faced were Colorado and they had us pinned in our own end for long stretches in the second and third. Fact is Leafs have no one on the backend that can effectively knock someone of the puck down low or clear the front of the net. No system change changes that and Ceci has actually looked worse for Keefe than he did before, he needs to be upgraded upon ASAP


That is just wrong. Muzzin is a big body that can be physical, heck Rielly is a big body that can throw his weight around. Also clearing the front of the net hasn't really been a problem for the team. Its been wide open shots in the slot which isn't the defencemans fault. They were always instructed to go after the puck all the time so it went behind the net, the defenceman would chase, leaving the front open and the centre was always too high to compensate and goals were scored. Keefe has everyone collapse down low and clog the middle. Its what the better defensive teams do in their zone. Look at the Islanders they allow a tonne of shots but they are all from the outside. Their defence isn't all that great but the system they play which is a cohesive 5 man unit limits high danger scoring chances. That is key in this day and age of speed, you have to always operate as a full 5 man unit otherwise teams will shred you. Which is what has been happening for almost a full calendar year. This whole TO's defenceman are all crap idea is just lazy. They have 3 top pair defenceman on their squad and with how good Dermot has looked recently and Holls progression, they have a very solid 6 man squad. Ceci has been much better than advertised and over the last 3 games they have been dominating possession wise. Even against Colorado, they dominated the first, fell back in the 2nd before being even in the 3rd. It was a well matched game that TO won. Its a known fact now that if you have a lead, you tend to face more shots and the other team presses for an equalizer. So the Colorado game isn't the greatest example to use.
29 nov. 2019 à 18 h 0
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
That is just wrong. Muzzin is a big body that can be physical, heck Rielly is a big body that can throw his weight around. Also clearing the front of the net hasn't really been a problem for the team. Its been wide open shots in the slot which isn't the defencemans fault. They were always instructed to go after the puck all the time so it went behind the net, the defenceman would chase, leaving the front open and the centre was always too high to compensate and goals were scored. Keefe has everyone collapse down low and clog the middle. Its what the better defensive teams do in their zone. Look at the Islanders they allow a tonne of shots but they are all from the outside. Their defence isn't all that great but the system they play which is a cohesive 5 man unit limits high danger scoring chances. That is key in this day and age of speed, you have to always operate as a full 5 man unit otherwise teams will shred you. Which is what has been happening for almost a full calendar year. This whole TO's defenceman are all crap idea is just lazy. They have 3 top pair defenceman on their squad and with how good Dermot has looked recently and Holls progression, they have a very solid 6 man squad. Ceci has been much better than advertised and over the last 3 games they have been dominating possession wise. Even against Colorado, they dominated the first, fell back in the 2nd before being even in the 3rd. It was a well matched game that TO won. Its a known fact now that if you have a lead, you tend to face more shots and the other team presses for an equalizer. So the Colorado game isn't the greatest example to use.

You’re wearing fan blinders if you think our defense is that good. Rielly is a stud and definitely top pair guy. Muzzin I think is also a top pair worthy Dman. Dermott has developed well and is a good second pair guy stuck on third pair because Rielly, Muzzin, and himself all lefties. On the right, we have Barrie who is a power play specialist, not top pair guy at all. Holl is a safe bottom pair guy who could play more minutes in a pinch, and Ceci is also a bottom pairing guy but not nearly as safe with his play, thrust into a spot that is above his ability. Far too many times he gets caught puck chasing instead of playing his position. This is especially troublesome on Ceci’s part on the pk. Leafs are one defenseman who plays strong along the boards away from being a good defensive team
29 nov. 2019 à 19 h 55
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Quoting: BigAnderson
You’re wearing fan blinders if you think our defense is that good. Rielly is a stud and definitely top pair guy. Muzzin I think is also a top pair worthy Dman. Dermott has developed well and is a good second pair guy stuck on third pair because Rielly, Muzzin, and himself all lefties. On the right, we have Barrie who is a power play specialist, not top pair guy at all. Holl is a safe bottom pair guy who could play more minutes in a pinch, and Ceci is also a bottom pairing guy but not nearly as safe with his play, thrust into a spot that is above his ability. Far too many times he gets caught puck chasing instead of playing his position. This is especially troublesome on Ceci’s part on the pk. Leafs are one defenseman who plays strong along the boards away from being a good defensive team


Yeah I'd like an upgrade on Ceci as well but it may not happen. After today I am firmly on board of needing a backup. Hutch just isn't good enough
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