Forums/Armchair-GM

Leafs Blues

Créé par: BigAnderson
Date de création initiale: nov 28, 2019
Publié: 28 nov 2019 à 14 h 42
Équipe: 2019-20 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Explications
All these rumours surrounding blues and Leafs, I just a lot fans thinking Leafs can rob them for Parayko or Pietrangelo. Why not create a bold move for both sides
Rielly is stud no doubt, but so is Parayko and he’s a better fit for Toronto’s needs as our PK is terrible as was our biggest downfall against Boston in the playoffs last year along with Kadri’s suspension. Adding Parayko to the PK unit helps Leafs more than losing Rielly hurts our power play. Furthermore Barbashev has more of the attributes that we miss from Kadri than Kerfoot does. He adds some sandpaper to the bottom 6 that is sorely missing in Toronto.
Transactions
TOR
  1. Parayko, Colton
  2. Bortuzzo, Robert
  3. Barbashev, Ivan
STL
  1. Kerfoot, Alexander
  2. Ceci, Cody (2 250 000 $ retained)
  3. Rielly, Morgan
Rachats de contrats
  • Mikhail Grabovski: 0 $
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Cody Ceci: 2 250 000 $ (50%)
  • Phil Kessel: 1 200 000 $ (15%)
  • Robin Lehner: 1 100 000 $ (22%)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2020
TOR
CBJ
TOR
VGK
TOR
CAR
COL
EDM
SJS
STL
WPG
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2481 500 000 $82 147 143 $0 $70 000 $-647 143 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
TOR
Johnsson, Andreas
3 400 000 $
AG
UFA - 4
TOR
Matthews, Auston
11 634 000 $
C
UFA - 5
TOR
Nylander, William
6 962 366 $
AD, AG
UFA - 5
TOR
Hyman, Zach
2 250 000 $
AG, AD
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Tavares, John
11 000 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 6
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
10 893 000 $
AD
UFA - 6
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
925 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
TOR
Spezza, Jason
700 000 $
C, AD
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Kapanen, Kasperi
3 200 000 $
AD
RFA - 3
STL
Barbashev, Ivan
1 475 000 $
C, AG
RFA - 2
TOR
Gauthier, Frédérik
675 000 $
C
RFA - 1
TOR
Moore, Trevor
775 000 $
AD, AG
RFA - 2
TOR
Timashov, Dmytro
694 444 $
AG
RFA - 1
TOR
Shore, Nick
750 000 $
C
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
4 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
STL
Parayko, Colton
5 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 3
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
5 000 000 $
G
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Dermott, Travis
863 333 $
DG
RFA - 1
TOR
Barrie, Tyson
2 750 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
TOR
Hutchinson, Michael
700 000 $
G
UFA - 1
TOR
Gravel, Kevin
700 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
TOR
Holl, Justin
675 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
TOR
Marincin, Martin
700 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
STL
Bortuzzo, Robert
1 375 000 $
DD
UFA - 3
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
TOR
Clarkson, David
5 250 000 $
AD
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Horton, Nathan
5 300 000 $
AD
NMC NTC
UFA - 1

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28 nov 2019 à 14 h 44
#1
Rejoint: déc 2018
Messages: 1,849
Mentions "j'aime": 662
Bad trade for the leafs
28 nov 2019 à 14 h 49
#2
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 19,125
Mentions "j'aime": 5,877
All these Leaf fans robbing St Louis, "How about we do a bold move for both side.".....proceeds to absolutely obliterate TO.

Rielly is better than Parayko
Johnsson and Kerfoot are worth more than both Allen and Barbashev. This is a horribly 1 sided trade.
28 nov 2019 à 14 h 55
#3
Sam
Rejoint: jan 2018
Messages: 4,274
Mentions "j'aime": 1,785
Quoting: LoganOllivier
All these Leaf fans robbing St Louis, "How about we do a bold move for both side.".....proceeds to absolutely obliterate TO.

Rielly is better than Parayko
Johnsson and Kerfoot are worth more than both Allen and Barbashev. This is a horribly 1 sided trade.


Is Reilly really better than Parayko? I mean Reilly is top-5 offensively, but is truly awful defensively whereas Parayko is top-5 defensively and slightly below average offensively. You could make the argument and it really depends on what you value, but it’s not black and white at all. But yeah, the Leafs wouldn’t do this trade.
28 nov 2019 à 14 h 59
#4
CPDunn Untouchable
Rejoint: mar 2018
Messages: 8,169
Mentions "j'aime": 2,299
Quoting: LoganOllivier
All these Leaf fans robbing St Louis, "How about we do a bold move for both side.".....proceeds to absolutely obliterate TO.

Rielly is better than Parayko
Johnsson and Kerfoot are worth more than both Allen and Barbashev. This is a horribly 1 sided trade.


Honestly now that I think about it Rielly and Parayko are closer than people think. Parayko is just probably Top 3 in Defense (might be a little lower but I can only think Slavin and I’m slipping on the other guy ???) but Allen sucks and Barbashev is 3C at best Kerfoot could get up to around a 2C and Johnson is around a 2nd Line right now. I know Toronto has a need for a backup but not at that cost.
28 nov 2019 à 15 h 05
#5
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 19,125
Mentions "j'aime": 5,877
Quoting: STLBlues17
Is Reilly really better than Parayko? I mean Reilly is top-5 offensively, but is truly awful defensively whereas Parayko is top-5 defensively and slightly below average offensively. You could make the argument and it really depends on what you value, but it’s not black and white at all. But yeah, the Leafs wouldn’t do this trade.


He is not awful defensively. Rielly is fantastic but was, like the rest of the team, using a system that absolutely didn't work. So many times where Rielly was blamed for bad defence was when he went to get the puck behind the net or the corner and someone went to the slot and the other team scored. That isn't Rielly's fault, that is the system's fault because there was no support. Keefe's system protects the high danger areas and has the whole team playing as a cohesive 5 man unit. Rielly is good defensively, and he's one of the best puck movers in the NHL and his skating is next level. He is better than Parayko. He's a better skater, a better puck handler, has way more offensive ability and is still going to get better.

Now please don't take this as me saying Parayko isn't terrific he absolutely is, he'd be the 2nd best defender in TO I'd wager, but he is still not at the level of Rielly. I think in 3 months, no one is going to think Parayko is equal to Rielly. I know it was only Detroit last night but they had a 20-4 advantage in high danger scoring chances and since Keefe has come in, they've been a positive team in the possession realm in every game and dominant in 2 of those games. They were a little bit better at 5v5 against Colorado and they are a legit cup contender.
28 nov 2019 à 15 h 08
#6
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 19,125
Mentions "j'aime": 5,877
Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
Honestly now that I think about it Rielly and Parayko are closer than people think. Parayko is just probably Top 3 in Defense (might be a little lower but I can only think Slavin and I’m slipping on the other guy ???) but Allen sucks and Barbashev is 3C at best Kerfoot could get up to around a 2C and Johnson is around a 2nd Line right now. I know Toronto has a need for a backup but not at that cost.


I don't want to sound like I don't appreciate Parayko. He is an absolute beast and I'd take him in a heart beat. I just don't think the cost is something I'd be willing to pay. To get Parayko I think it would have to include one of Marner or Nylander, whatever else is involved is not something I want to discuss but to get Parayko its going to cost one of those guys and I wouldn't really want to do that move at this time. Mainly because I think the "TO's defence is garbage." mentality is incorrect. I think their system was a joke and Keefe is fixing that, and I really think the goals against for TO is going to drop a bunch.
28 nov 2019 à 15 h 11
#7
Sam
Rejoint: jan 2018
Messages: 4,274
Mentions "j'aime": 1,785
Quoting: LoganOllivier
He is not awful defensively. Rielly is fantastic but was, like the rest of the team, using a system that absolutely didn't work. So many times where Rielly was blamed for bad defence was when he went to get the puck behind the net or the corner and someone went to the slot and the other team scored. That isn't Rielly's fault, that is the system's fault because there was no support. Keefe's system protects the high danger areas and has the whole team playing as a cohesive 5 man unit. Rielly is good defensively, and he's one of the best puck movers in the NHL and his skating is next level. He is better than Parayko. He's a better skater, a better puck handler, has way more offensive ability and is still going to get better.

Now please don't take this as me saying Parayko isn't terrific he absolutely is, he'd be the 2nd best defender in TO I'd wager, but he is still not at the level of Rielly. I think in 3 months, no one is going to think Parayko is equal to Rielly. I know it was only Detroit last night but they had a 20-4 advantage in high danger scoring chances and since Keefe has come in, they've been a positive team in the possession realm in every game and dominant in 2 of those games. They were a little bit better at 5v5 against Colorado and they are a legit cup contender.


He’s been pretty bad most of his career though. Even last year his defensive numbers weren’t pretty at all.
28 nov 2019 à 15 h 16
#8
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 19,125
Mentions "j'aime": 5,877
Quoting: STLBlues17
He’s been pretty bad most of his career though. Even last year his defensive numbers weren’t pretty at all.


He had Ron Hainsey as a partner. He's never had a decent partner and that has hurt him defensively. On top of that, the system wasn't working. He for sure isn't as good defensively as Parayko but he isn't terrible defensively, he's pretty good but needs to be in a system that emphasizes a cohesive 5 man unit. Plus he's been hurt this season and I think that has had an impact.
STLBlues17 a aimé ceci.
28 nov 2019 à 15 h 17
#9
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: nov 2019
Messages: 195
Mentions "j'aime": 58
I started out just doing either kerfoot or Johnsson with Rielly for Barbashev and Parayko. Added both and Allen to make total cap closer to each other. Barbashev and Parayko are absolutely better for what Toronto needs than Rielly and Kerfoot. Im a Leafs fan and a Muzzin Parayko top pairing is 100 times better than any pairing the Leafs have had on D in 20 years
28 nov 2019 à 15 h 21
#10
CPDunn Untouchable
Rejoint: mar 2018
Messages: 8,169
Mentions "j'aime": 2,299
Quoting: LoganOllivier
He had Ron Hainsey as a partner. He's never had a decent partner and that has hurt him defensively. On top of that, the system wasn't working. He for sure isn't as good defensively as Parayko but he isn't terrible defensively, he's pretty good but needs to be in a system that emphasizes a cohesive 5 man unit. Plus he's been hurt this season and I think that has had an impact.


Parayko has had Bouwmeester as his partner most of his career and consistently does better defensively. When Bouwmeester is a defensive liability.
28 nov 2019 à 15 h 22
#11
Sicarius
Rejoint: nov 2016
Messages: 1,012
Mentions "j'aime": 163
Maybe add Pietrangelo and Schenn to the deal
mokumboi a aimé ceci.
28 nov 2019 à 15 h 24
#12
CPDunn Untouchable
Rejoint: mar 2018
Messages: 8,169
Mentions "j'aime": 2,299
Quoting: LoganOllivier
I don't want to sound like I don't appreciate Parayko. He is an absolute beast and I'd take him in a heart beat. I just don't think the cost is something I'd be willing to pay. To get Parayko I think it would have to include one of Marner or Nylander, whatever else is involved is not something I want to discuss but to get Parayko its going to cost one of those guys and I wouldn't really want to do that move at this time. Mainly because I think the "TO's defence is garbage." mentality is incorrect. I think their system was a joke and Keefe is fixing that, and I really think the goals against for TO is going to drop a bunch.

Here’s my opinion on that. Until we see more than a small few games sample size of Keefe I think Parayko is still probably pretty close to Rielly. And after the last few months Parayko was better because of the system. Now I will give Rielly a benefit of the doubt based on the system failing. But Parayko has done better than what Rielly can do defensively. Rielly is shown as a defensive liability on multiple charts and Parayko does not. Rielly is elite on offense, and Parayko is probably actually a little below average or maybe around average.
28 nov 2019 à 15 h 28
#13
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 19,125
Mentions "j'aime": 5,877
Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
Parayko has had Bouwmeester as his partner most of his career and consistently does better defensively. When Bouwmeester is a defensive liability.


Bouwmeester even now, is still 1000% better than Hainsey, he's probably still better than Ceci. Bus really I don't want to take anything away from Parayko, he's terrific. He's just not as good as Rielly overall.
28 nov 2019 à 15 h 29
#14
CPDunn Untouchable
Rejoint: mar 2018
Messages: 8,169
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
Bouwmeester even now, is still 1000% better than Hainsey, he's probably still better than Ceci. Bus really I don't want to take anything away from Parayko, he's terrific. He's just not as good as Rielly overall.


Bouwmeester is worse at defense than Hainsey is tho so it’s more of a give or take.
28 nov 2019 à 15 h 30
#15
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: nov 2019
Messages: 195
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Quoting: Sicarius
Maybe add Pietrangelo and Schenn to the deal


Add to it or put in place of? I’d take Parayko over Pietrangelo because he’s younger,cheaper, and still has term. No way the Blues give up Schenn for one or both middle 6 wingers. ( I know Kerfoot is technically a centre, but anybody that actually watches him play can see he’s better suited for the wing.)
28 nov 2019 à 15 h 32
#16
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 19,125
Mentions "j'aime": 5,877
Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
Here’s my opinion on that. Until we see more than a small few games sample size of Keefe I think Parayko is still probably pretty close to Rielly. And after the last few months Parayko was better because of the system. Now I will give Rielly a benefit of the doubt based on the system failing. But Parayko has done better than what Rielly can do defensively. Rielly is shown as a defensive liability on multiple charts and Parayko does not. Rielly is elite on offense, and Parayko is probably actually a little below average or maybe around average.


I know people like to use shot heat maps to prove how bad defensively Rielly is, but that is such wrong way to look at things. Rielly and the rest of the Leafs constantly got burned by chasing the puck away from the net and the centre not rotating down to defend the slot. That was a system thing. Babs wanted the points covered so you had 2 wingers hanging around the blue line and that often left the middle of the ice pretty open. So you'd see Rielly go after a guy in the corner or behind the net and then someone would slide in front and get a grade A chance and score. That doesn't happen in the new system. They protect the front of the net and defend as a 5 man unit. Why Babs thought his system would work is beyond me, but Rielly is definitely an amazing player. He's so good with the puck and his skating is elite. Yeah he takes chances and sometimes that'll burn him but the benefits far outweigh the negatives.
28 nov 2019 à 15 h 35
#17
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 19,125
Mentions "j'aime": 5,877
Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
Bouwmeester is worse at defense than Hainsey is tho so it’s more of a give or take.


Hainsey just sucks man. He's so slow now and could never get back and recover whenever anything went wrong. He was just terrible in the role Babs put him in. Rielly played almost the entire year like he had a pylon for a partner. This season, its been a combination of bad system, injury and bad luck thats really hurt him. I think Keefe's plan of holding onto the puck, is absolutely perfect for Rielly. I think he's for sure a top 5 puck rushing defender. Maybe top 3.
28 nov 2019 à 15 h 42
#18
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: nov 2019
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
I know people like to use shot heat maps to prove how bad defensively Rielly is, but that is such wrong way to look at things. Rielly and the rest of the Leafs constantly got burned by chasing the puck away from the net and the centre not rotating down to defend the slot. That was a system thing. Babs wanted the points covered so you had 2 wingers hanging around the blue line and that often left the middle of the ice pretty open. So you'd see Rielly go after a guy in the corner or behind the net and then someone would slide in front and get a grade A chance and score. That doesn't happen in the new system. They protect the front of the net and defend as a 5 man unit. Why Babs thought his system would work is beyond me, but Rielly is definitely an amazing player. He's so good with the puck and his skating is elite. Yeah he takes chances and sometimes that'll burn him but the benefits far outweigh the negatives.


I love Rielly and am no way saying I’d want to see him moved out. However I think to realistically get a defender like Parayko the Leafs have to give up something back. Parayko is so good in his own end that I would trade any one of our defensemen for him and just feel Rielly is who it would take. With Muzzin, Dermott, and Sandin being left side guys I could live with losing Rielly of it meant bringing in a Parayko
28 nov 2019 à 15 h 52
#19
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 19,125
Mentions "j'aime": 5,877
Quoting: BigAnderson
I love Rielly and am no way saying I’d want to see him moved out. However I think to realistically get a defender like Parayko the Leafs have to give up something back. Parayko is so good in his own end that I would trade any one of our defensemen for him and just feel Rielly is who it would take. With Muzzin, Dermott, and Sandin being left side guys I could live with losing Rielly of it meant bringing in a Parayko


Muzzin is FA and is 30. Rielly is going to be a Norris finalist one of these days, if you have one of those, you don't trade it. Rielly is better than all out other defenders and its not close.
28 nov 2019 à 16 h 06
#20
CPDunn Untouchable
Rejoint: mar 2018
Messages: 8,169
Mentions "j'aime": 2,299
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Muzzin is FA and is 30. Rielly is going to be a Norris finalist one of these days, if you have one of those, you don't trade it. Rielly is better than all out other defenders and its not close.


I think that is a bit overboard. He won’t be a Norris Winner. I don’t think he is that type of player.
28 nov 2019 à 16 h 12
#21
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 19,125
Mentions "j'aime": 5,877
Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
I think that is a bit overboard. He won’t be a Norris Winner. I don’t think he is that type of player.


5th in votes last season and he is absolutely that good of a player. Give him a real partner and a system that doesn't hang everyone out to dry all the time and Rielly is one of the best defenceman on the planet. I don't care what anyone says, he is absolutely that good. He also elevates his game when he needs to. He's a beast.
28 nov 2019 à 16 h 16
#22
CPDunn Untouchable
Rejoint: mar 2018
Messages: 8,169
Mentions "j'aime": 2,299
Quoting: LoganOllivier
5th in votes last season and he is absolutely that good of a player. Give him a real partner and a system that doesn't hang everyone out to dry all the time and Rielly is one of the best defenceman on the planet. I don't care what anyone says, he is absolutely that good. He also elevates his game when he needs to. He's a beast.


Real partner or not 5th place is not as close as you think. If he was Top 3 then we are talking.
28 nov 2019 à 16 h 19
#23
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 19,125
Mentions "j'aime": 5,877
Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
Real partner or not 5th place is not as close as you think. If he was Top 3 then we are talking.


He should have been a finalist, I thought it was a complete joke he didn't get more votes. But Rielly is also one of my favorite players so obviously I have a bias. He is still only 25 and I think a lot of people don't realize that.
28 nov 2019 à 16 h 20
#24
CPDunn Untouchable
Rejoint: mar 2018
Messages: 8,169
Mentions "j'aime": 2,299
Quoting: LoganOllivier
He should have been a finalist, I thought it was a complete joke he didn't get more votes. But Rielly is also one of my favorite players so obviously I have a bias. He is still only 25 and I think a lot of people don't realize that.


In a young mans league the peak has shown to drop in age to 23 as your Peak.
28 nov 2019 à 16 h 38
#25
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 19,125
Mentions "j'aime": 5,877
Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
In a young mans league the peak has shown to drop in age to 23 as your Peak.


For forwards, that is when they usually enter their prime and for defenceman its about a year later. Rielly is terrific. So is Parayko. These teams won't make a blockbuster. I'd be shocked if they did.
BeastModeUnknown a aimé ceci.
 
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