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(VGK/NJD) - Gusev for 2020 3rd RD pick and 2021 2nd RD pick

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29 jui 2019 à 18 h 04
#26
First NY Then LA
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Quoting: exo2769
I honestly feel like this is a certain win for Vegas...because a 2nd and 3rd rounder is pretty darn good for a player that you A.) got for nothing and B.) hasn't played a minute in the NHL. We'll see if this can be a win for NJ. Expectations for Gusev are pretty insane right now. Actually sounds like a good time to sell. With that said...NJ has the cap and the picks to roll the dice. Could turn out to be a win for NJ, but we'll see. It's still a $4.5M contract to live up to.


I can see it now . . . Gusev is rookie of the year. Then the third turns into the next Brayden Point and the second turns into the next Sebastian Aho. The question is, will any of us remember?
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29 jui 2019 à 18 h 06
#27
best poster
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Quoting: SpaghettiPasta
He was first in scoring for a league just below the NHL so...


his closest comparable is a guy who lasted 3 games in the nhl.
29 jui 2019 à 18 h 27
#28
Hugh Hefner of CF
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Deal is fair but 4.5 million for a guy who hasn't played a single NHL game??????!!!!!!????
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29 jui 2019 à 18 h 53
#29
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Erat for Forsberg
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29 jui 2019 à 21 h 25
#30
i hope ur hungry now
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Quoting: mondo
his closest comparable is a guy who lasted 3 games in the nhl.


Who
29 jui 2019 à 21 h 53
#31
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Quoting: SpaghettiPasta
Who


shipachyov
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29 jui 2019 à 22 h 08
#32
i hope ur hungry now
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Quoting: mondo
shipachyov


Dadonov
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29 jui 2019 à 22 h 15
#33
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Quoting: exo2769
I honestly feel like this is a certain win for Vegas...because a 2nd and 3rd rounder is pretty darn good for a player that you A.) got for nothing and B.) hasn't played a minute in the NHL. We'll see if this can be a win for NJ. Expectations for Gusev are pretty insane right now. Actually sounds like a good time to sell. With that said...NJ has the cap and the picks to roll the dice. Could turn out to be a win for NJ, but we'll see. It's still a $4.5M contract to live up to.


So you’re saying Vegas was going to pick Jason Garrison anyways?
29 jui 2019 à 23 h 04
#34
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Said several weeks ago Vegas won't get a 1st rounder or a blue chip and multiple people thought I was crazy. At most I thought two 2nd rounders, he went for even less. Not shocked at all.
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30 jui 2019 à 7 h 56
#35
exo2769
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Quoting: EthanK24
So you’re saying Vegas was going to pick Jason Garrison anyways?


Part of expansion trade. There are a lot that goes into this. LVK also got another 2nd and a 4th for that too. I'm not saying Gusev is a bust by any means at all, but he hasn't played a single minute in the NHL and he's already 27. He's at his prime right now and still needs to acclimate to smaller ice. Kovy just came back after being a 30G/30A guy (for the same team) and stunk it up royally. LVK couldn't keep Gusev anyway and getting (2) 2nds (1) 3rd and (1) 4th is pretty darn good for taking on 1 year of Garrison. The best time to sell a stock is when it's up. Getting another 2nd rounder and a 3rd when you're basically forced to sell. That's a good return.
30 jui 2019 à 8 h 37
#36
dp6154
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Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
@dp6154 so 2nd Edmundson MacEachern and Fabbri>2nd and 3rd. I think this argument is ended lol.


First and more importantly, why are you still bothering me about this? Get on with your life. There is more to life than soiling your diaper this hard every time someone doesn't share a sports opinion with you. I thought this was finally over. Go away

Second, Vegas made an awful trade with Jersey that is rightly getting panned, that doesn't make:
- MacEachern a middle 6 guy or anyone who is posed to break out on the basis of being 25
- Edmundson a no doubt top 4 defensemen
- Kostin a better prospect than Gusev or Bokk or Kyrou
- Vegas a team that would take on any salary right now in a cap dump
- Gusev a guy who is simultaneously an over the hump 3rd liner and a guy worth trading a "middle 6 guy", a "top 4 defensemen", Blais and a pick for
- me a 1)bad fan who doesn't watch games 2)a Vegas fan 3)someone who ignores numbers and misused numbers by citing correct numbers from the source you purport to use while citing more numbers from there to paint a complete picture and correctly applying all of them
or
- Kostin and a steeper price than a "middle 6" guy, a "top 4" dfensemen, Blais, a 2nd and a 3rd (which isn't to say my price wasn't higher, just that if your assertations of MacEachern and Eddy are true with them all set to make collectively between 4.5 and 6 million that is a haul that is worth more than a premier prospect, let alone a good but raw and quickly fading one like Kostin + a [likely late - they are defending champs after all and Armstrong hasn't selected in the top half of a draft in a while - and can always be protected] first)

so please, my original assertion was simply that Vegas wouldn't want to take on salary, that Vegas undersold Gusev by even more than you expected in order to not take on salary doesn't make that go away and every blues opinion you had going forward was off the charts homerism surrounded by unnecessary insults lobbed at me for now reason other than your self reassurance after your feeling were hurt, so Dear Lord Jesus Christ God in heaven, GO AWAY
30 jui 2019 à 8 h 40
#37
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Quoting: dp6154
First and more importantly, why are you still bothering me about this? Get on with your life. There is more to life than soiling your diaper this hard every time someone doesn't share a sports opinion with you. I thought this was finally over. Go away

Second, Vegas made an awful trade with Jersey that is rightly getting panned, that doesn't make:
- MacEachern a middle 6 guy or anyone who is posed to break out on the basis of being 25
- Edmundson a no doubt top 4 defensemen
- Kostin a better prospect than Gusev or Bokk or Kyrou
- Vegas a team that would take on any salary right now in a cap dump
- Gusev a guy who is simultaneously an over the hump 3rd liner and a guy worth trading a "middle 6 guy", a "top 4 defensemen", Blais and a pick for
- me a 1)bad fan who doesn't watch games 2)a Vegas fan 3)someone who ignores numbers and misused numbers by citing correct numbers from the source you purport to use while citing more numbers from there to paint a complete picture and correctly applying all of them
or
- Kostin and a steeper price than a "middle 6" guy, a "top 4" dfensemen, Blais, a 2nd and a 3rd (which isn't to say my price wasn't higher, just that if your assertations of MacEachern and Eddy are true with them all set to make collectively between 4.5 and 6 million that is a haul that is worth more than a premier prospect, let alone a good but raw and quickly fading one like Kostin + a [likely late - they are defending champs after all and Armstrong hasn't selected in the top half of a draft in a while - and can always be protected] first)

so please, my original assertion was simply that Vegas wouldn't want to take on salary, that Vegas undersold Gusev by even more than you expected in order to not take on salary doesn't make that go away and every blues opinion you had going forward was off the charts homerism surrounded by unnecessary insults lobbed at me for now reason other than your self reassurance after your feeling were hurt, so Dear Lord Jesus Christ God in heaven, GO AWAY


Well I was just saying that it was a little less than what we both expected....
30 jui 2019 à 9 h 01
#38
best poster
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Quoting: SpaghettiPasta
Dadonov


dadonov had nhl experience prior to returning.
30 jui 2019 à 10 h 41
#39
i hope ur hungry now
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Quoting: mondo
dadonov had nhl experience prior to returning.


Gusev had better totals than panarin
30 jui 2019 à 12 h 17
#40
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Quoting: SpaghettiPasta
Gusev had better totals than panarin


shipachyov had pretty good totals too. both him and gusev are entering the league on the same salary with no prior nhl experience, fairly different from dadonov and panarin.
30 jui 2019 à 13 h 47
#41
i hope ur hungry now
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Quoting: mondo
shipachyov had pretty good totals too. both him and gusev are entering the league on the same salary with no prior nhl experience, fairly different from dadonov and panarin.


They are at the same salary. So what? Panarin didn't have experience
31 jui 2019 à 8 h 33
#42
dp6154
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Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
Well I was just saying that it was a little less than what we both expected....


yeah it certainly was, NJ really did well on this trade
21 aoû 2019 à 7 h 25
#43
i hope ur hungry now
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Quoting: exo2769
I honestly feel like this is a certain win for Vegas...because a 2nd and 3rd rounder is pretty darn good for a player that you A.) got for nothing and B.) hasn't played a minute in the NHL. We'll see if this can be a win for NJ. Expectations for Gusev are pretty insane right now. Actually sounds like a good time to sell. With that said...NJ has the cap and the picks to roll the dice. Could turn out to be a win for NJ, but we'll see. It's still a $4.5M contract to live up to.


They got it for not selecting Tyler Johnson
11 sep 2019 à 2 h 43
#44
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Quoting: Chopper02
Said several weeks ago Vegas won't get a 1st rounder or a blue chip and multiple people thought I was crazy. At most I thought two 2nd rounders, he went for even less. Not shocked at all.


Having zero cap space is a b-tch. Teams like the Devils are always waiting to pounce.
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9 avr à 12 h 16
#45
exo2769
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
I can see it now . . . Gusev is rookie of the year. Then the third turns into the next Brayden Point and the second turns into the next Sebastian Aho. The question is, will any of us remember?


I REMEMBER! Gusev's contract is terminated! Hmmm...Maybe this was a win for Vegas after all???
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9 avr à 12 h 20
#46
exo2769
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Quoting: SpaghettiPasta
Gusev had better totals than panarin


This isn't aging well.
9 avr à 13 h 54
#47
Seattle fan day 1
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Well since Gusev was terminated and Cormier looks like a good prospect Vegas easily wins
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9 avr à 14 h 54
#48
best poster
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Quoting: SpaghettiPasta
They are at the same salary. So what? Panarin didn't have experience


Panarin is looking more and more like an outlier. Don't think many top KHL guys are going to be getting big money without some NHL experience.
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9 avr à 16 h 00
#49
Hey Beter
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Quoting: mondo
Panarin is looking more and more like an outlier. Don't think many top KHL guys are going to be getting big money without some NHL experience.


This leads me to wonder if player evaluations out of the KHL need to change. NHLe is clearly overvaluing names that come out of Russia. I have some thoughts:

1. In line with the times, I wonder how much of it has more to do with the rate of called penalties. A very quick skim over some recent games appears to show much less game management and thus an increase in available powerplays. Is there a noticeable discrepancy between how many powerplays a team gets in the NHL versus the KHL? If game management wasn't a thing, we should expect rates across both leagues to be even. Are Russian numbers inflated by a more "fair" style of game and are being subsequently deflated upon reaching the NHL?

2. The KHL has a very shady salary cap system and we frequently see "superteams" emerge, CSKA comes to mind. Do we need to be adjusting for usage, teams, etc with more scrutiny than we typically do with NHL players? It appears that parity is not a goal of the KHL but it very much is in the NHL.

3. Is there something more systemic, such as how the developmental leagues are distributed in Russia, playing a factor? We often see players that get out of Russia sooner becoming superstars at the NHL level (Ovechkin, Malkin, Tarasenko, etc). Even Yakupov at one point was considered to be an NHL talent. Are the systems taught in Russian hockey early on in development that incompatible with North American systems? Does the variation of arena sizes across the KHL cause discrepancies in individual scoring rates?

4. Is the problem internal to the NHL? We see guys abdicate (Granlund, Jaskin, etc) the NHL to play in the KHL and their numbers spike to the levels that would suggest they were top-six talents in North America. Is there still a bias working against Russian players in the NHL? Does the NHL prioritize the idea of a "blue-collar, lunchpail, hard-working" player over skill (yes) and it results in an absolute lack of translation? I think Panarin is evidence of the ethic>skill argument: it seems like he got more of a leash when he was first in Chicago than most Russian players tend to get.

Also @mondo when next redraft???
9 avr à 20 h 19
#50
i hope ur hungry now
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Quoting: exo2769
This isn't aging well.


He still had better totals in the khl no matter how how he does in the nhl
 
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