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RFA RightsOffer Sheet Re-Tooling

Créé par: oneX
Équipe: 2019-20 Équipe personnalisée
Date de création initiale: 14 juill. 2019
Publié: 14 juill. 2019
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Come September the league can choose to opt out of the current CBA making this upcoming season the last under this CBA. Not saying the league is or should opt out. I'm creating this ACGM to have an intelligent conversation/discussion on RFA rights and how to make the Offer Sheet tool more effective in the next CBA moving forward.
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $129 761 305 $0 $5 990 000 $-48 261 305 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Lightning de Tampa Bay
9 500 000 $9 500 000 $
AD
UFA - 8
Logo de Oilers d'Edmonton
12 500 000 $12 500 000 $
C
UFA - 7
Logo de Blackhawks de Chicago
2 625 000 $2 625 000 $
AD
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo de Flames de Calgary
6 750 000 $6 750 000 $
AG
UFA - 3
Logo de Ducks d'Anaheim
2 463 139 $2 463 139 $
AD, AG
UFA - 3
Logo de Oilers d'Edmonton
8 500 000 $8 500 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 6
Logo de Blackhawks de Chicago
778 333 $778 333 $ (Bonis de performance32 500 $$32K)
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Islanders de New York
863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance400 000 $$400K)
C, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Rangers de New York
925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance2 650 000 $$3M)
AD
RFA - 3
Logo de Jets de Winnipeg
6 125 000 $6 125 000 $
C
UFA - 5
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
11 634 000 $11 634 000 $
C
UFA - 5
Logo de Canucks de Vancouver
925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance2 850 000 $$3M)
C, AG
UFA - 2
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Ducks d'Anaheim
6 500 000 $6 500 000 $
DG/DD
M-NTC
UFA - 7
Logo de Flames de Calgary
755 833 $755 833 $ (Bonis de performance57 500 $$58K)
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Lightning de Tampa Bay
3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
7 250 000 $7 250 000 $
DD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 3
Logo de Jets de Winnipeg
6 166 667 $6 166 667 $
G
UFA - 5
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 3
Logo de Blues de St-Louis
6 500 000 $6 500 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
11 000 000 $11 000 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 8
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
10 000 000 $10 000 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo de Golden Knights de Vegas
9 500 000 $9 500 000 $
AD
NMC
UFA - 8

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14 juill. 2019 à 17 h 51
#1
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As the description says: with the league having the option to opt out of the CBA come September, how would you improve upon the current RFA rights and offer sheet rules to make them more effective/viable.

Just looking for some intelligent conversation, ignore the roster Lol

@Trickster, @Jamiepo, @Jangle29, @blowing_the_zone, @TanSor, @OldNYIfan, @swinny, @LoganOllivier, @palhal, @BCAPP, @Bcarlo25, @MisstheWhalers. What do you guys think?

Fine tune the offer sheeting proccess!
14 juill. 2019 à 18 h 8
#2
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First of all, the seven-day match period is much too short when the offer is made and signed soon after July 1st, before teams can know what some of their other players can be signed for or will. I would make it a 20-day period for offers extended and signed prior to July 16, and a 10-day period after that.

Second, I would adjust the compensation schedule, as follows: $1 to $2 million, 3rd; $2 to $3.5 million, 2nd; $3.5 to $5 million, 1st; $5 to $7 million, 1st and 3rd; $7 to $9 million, 1st, 2nd and 3rd; $9 to $11 million, two 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd; over $11 million, three firsts, a second and a third. I think this might encourage additional offers.

Third, I have heard that some people think there should be a transfer back if an offer is matched. This would just limit the likelihood of offers even more.
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14 juill. 2019 à 18 h 12
#3
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I'd lower the compensation costs.

It's hard to get someone to sign a superstar when they also have to give up 4 firsts.
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14 juill. 2019 à 18 h 15
#4
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Modifié 15 juill. 2019 à 8 h 28
Quoting: BCAPP
I'd lower the compensation costs.

It's hard to get someone to sign a superstar when they also have to give up 4 firsts.


I like high costs, this sort of move needs to be double edged sword imo.
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14 juill. 2019 à 18 h 19
#5
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Off the top of my head, I don't know anything to change. Teams put lots of money into pro development and feel they are to some cost control over their young players till they get to UFA.
And really with potential of offer sheets and arbitration how much of a financial haircut are theses RFAs really taking....Hardly any at all you could argue.
Besides most teams are spending to the cap or very close to it...even non playoff teams. So let's say there was a process when the top RFAs were had a mechanism to get more money, sure they would get more money but at the expense of other players. Doesn't improve the overall salaries to the NHLPA members.

The only thing I might change is "the compensation". Four first rounders from a team like Tampa just might be four picks in the mid to late 20s. New Jersey picks might range from 7 to 22 in that four years.
Hardly a equal compensation package. Maybe "grading" the value of the picks might be more fair instead of just giving the current mandatory picks.
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14 juill. 2019 à 18 h 23
#6
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I think there will be little opposition to lowering the age for arbitration. The owners feared it but it's turned into something both sides like.
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14 juill. 2019 à 18 h 32
#7
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Modifié 15 juill. 2019 à 8 h 28
Quoting: LoganOllivier
I think there will be little opposition to lowering the age for arbitration. The owners feared it but it's turned into something both sides like.


I think arbitration age is too young as is.

I like what @palhal said about the compensation and would add something to the effect that a pick in the compensation can be renegotiated to be player as well.
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14 juill. 2019 à 18 h 38
#8
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Quoting: Trickster
I think arbitration age is too young as is.

I like what @palhal said about the compensation and would add something to the effect that a pick in the compensation can be renegotiated to be player as well.


Ooooh, I like that last idea!!
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14 juill. 2019 à 18 h 44
#9
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Quoting: Trickster
I like high costs, this sort of move needs to be double edged sword imo.


I'd just like to see more movement. More use of offersheets
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14 juill. 2019 à 18 h 52
#10
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Quoting: BCAPP
I'd just like to see more movement. More use of offersheets


There is no stopping moves right now, you just have to be willing to pay the price.
I think the price is perfect right now, think about it.

You draft and develop, put and a ton resources and money into a player.
Why should it be easy for another team to come and take a player away?
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14 juill. 2019 à 19 h 3
#11
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Quoting: Trickster
I think arbitration age is too young as is.

I like what @palhal said about the compensation and would add something to the effect that a pick in the compensation can be renegotiated to be player as well.


Well that's just a trade then, but owners would welcome younger arbitration and players should be okay with it. It prevents needless squabbles since you can always let someone else decide so you get a market fair deal.
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14 juill. 2019 à 19 h 9
#12
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I'd love put something in the CBA as standard of measurement for FW, D, and goalies.

Like FW get paid on on goals, not saying they play for free in other aspects but this should be the measuring stick.

D, assists.

G, Save %.


In FW and D, there will be hybrids, so they get paid appropriately.
14 juill. 2019 à 19 h 42
#13
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Quoting: oneX
As the description says: with the league having the option to opt out of the CBA come September, how would you improve upon the current RFA rights and offer sheet rules to make them more effective/viable.

Just looking for some intelligent conversation, ignore the roster Lol

@Trickster, @Jamiepo, @Jangle29, @blowing_the_zone, @TanSor, @OldNYIfan, @swinny, @LoganOllivier, @palhal, @BCAPP, @Bcarlo25, @MisstheWhalers. What do you guys think?

Fine tune the offer sheeting proccess!


I would remove offersheets completely, they are a waste of time. I would lower the age of ufa to 25 or 5 seasons. Arbitration would only require one season. I think this is something the owner may not like but I think in the long run will help both sides. The only issue I see with this formula is defensemen. They take a bit longer to develop and would be hitting ufa before you really know what you have. Maybe a longer period for goalies and defensemen but I think that would be tricky to pull off.
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14 juill. 2019 à 20 h 1
#14
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Quoting: Jamiepo
I would remove offersheets completely, they are a waste of time. I would lower the age of ufa to 25 or 5 seasons. Arbitration would only require one season. I think this is something the owner may not like but I think in the long run will help both sides. The only issue I see with this formula is defensemen. They take a bit longer to develop and would be hitting ufa before you really know what you have. Maybe a longer period for goalies and defensemen but I think that would be tricky to pull off.


Ew, I dont know how you would like that man.
Sounds a nightmare to navigate as a agM
14 juill. 2019 à 20 h 17
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Quoting: Trickster
Ew, I dont know how you would like that man.
Sounds a nightmare to navigate as a agM


This is what the nhlpa wants. Lower the ufa age. Although if rfa’s keep signing big ufa type deals maybe it won’t be an issue
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14 juill. 2019 à 20 h 27
#16
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Quoting: Jamiepo
This is what the nhlpa wants. Lower the ufa age. Although if rfa’s keep signing big ufa type deals maybe it won’t be an issue


I'm not in favour of what the NHLPA wants.
14 juill. 2019 à 21 h 15
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Lots of good points here. Just to pick up on a couple and add a thought

* I like the idea if offer sheets and would like to see more of them. And I agree with Trickster's point that it needs to be a double edged sword. Like Pal states, teams put a ton of resources into developing their draft picks, they simply can't have rfas poached without some sort of compensation. They are not ufas.

*I think this shift in the rfa landscape runs deeper than rising salaries for rfas. The game is changing and shifting to speed, skill and youth. But as these young guys eat up a greater percentage of the cap it's the middle class of players that are feeling the pinch. Regardless of what people think of the players union, it's the union that negotiates on the players behalf with the NHL owners. At a certain point I would assume that the majority of the players union (the middle class guys) start pushing back against this trend of paying super star rfas such a big percentage of the cap.

* I forget who the poster was but a few months ago but someone threw out an idea where rfas are capped at a percentage much in the same way that an elc has an upper cap. I can certainly see how superstar players in the union would push back against that idea, but I could also see how middle class members of the union (the majority of their members) might embrace that concept. Take Connor Brown for example. A local kid success story who got shipped put of town because his 2M contract was too much of a burden on a cash strapped team. He wasn't traded because the leafs didn't like him. Lots of Connor Browns out there.
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14 juill. 2019 à 21 h 20
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It's difficult to discuss really. Over the last two or three seasons we have witnessed a total shift in how players are compensated. With thenlast CBA, experience still mattered, and was paid accordingly with performance. Secondary contracts were reasonable, and shorter to allow for players tonreaxh full potential and thus a payday - or the plateaued whereby they would be paid accordingly.

This is no longer the case. Secondary contracts at this point is THE money contract for many of the games up amd comers. GMs going longer term, buying UFA years in hopes of a long term bargin. Couple this with a flat cap and we get what we have. Stalemates, holdouts etc.

My solution is developing a standard secondary contract that takes a player to 25 or 26 years of age. It would be performance based, but essentially puts in enough cost control that we don't see the nutty demands. All players after that go UFA and let the chips fall where they may.

Another solution is the status quo, but moving to a luxury tax system. Yes I am aware it will never fly. But a dollar for dollar system could be a solution. Instress could be, provided that revenue is distributed properly.

Spit balling on this one.
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14 juill. 2019 à 21 h 34
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Quoting: Trickster
There is no stopping moves right now, you just have to be willing to pay the price.
I think the price is perfect right now, think about it.

You draft and develop, put and a ton resources and money into a player.
Why should it be easy for another team to come and take a player away?


What's stopping the movement is too high a price. Lower the price, increase the movement.

Yes it would cost teams. Make the league as a whole more exciting
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14 juill. 2019 à 21 h 47
#20
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Wow!
Alot of good idea mentioned here and so much to dissect. When I first made this ACGM, my goal kinda was to maybe re-tool the offer sheeting process more than anything because of what everyone saw with Nylander and now with the current RFA's but as soon as I thought of the offer sheet stuff, I thought maybe the entire RFA rights part of the CBA has to be looked at.

Another idea of when offer sheets happen may be, as @Trickster mentioned, deferring picks (or prospects) to future years but this one is tricky depending on the language used to determine the picks. Maybe a way to make offer sheets more viable is to lessen the restrictions on picks? Example: first tier offer sheets = three 1st rounders must be your own but any one of the four can be a pick acquired from other teams. Does that help? maybe. maybe not.

One other point and maybe this is a larger CBA issue rather than a RFA one but, putting premiums on goals. Look, I get it, assists are important too but goals are what show up on the scoreboard, so why not encourage more goals by rewarding for them in contracts? Not saying that's not happening, but perhaps its not happening enough? Everyone but.. maybe coaches want goals, so encourage them by giving contracts that reflect that.
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14 juill. 2019 à 21 h 48
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What I'd really do though is change the cap to have three numbers.

The min (the same as now)
The regular cap (soft)
The hard cap (significantly higher)

For example let's say the min was 61 mil, the cap 81 mil, the hard cap 101 mil.

For every dollar over 81 mil you pay 2-3 dollars to any team not above 81 mil.

That allows large market teams to flex their financial muscle a bit, but the lower market teams get their benefit from it.
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14 juill. 2019 à 22 h 4
#22
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Maybe I'm against what most are saying here, but I actually like that there aren't a lot of offer sheets. While I do love some good chaos, I would also be pretty pissed if my team had a player like Marner or Point and they ended up signing an offer sheet and then our GM let the player walk and took picks for compensation. Maybe that's because outside of Gaborik the Wild haven't ever had a superstar player and I've just been clamoring to see that type of talent on a yearly basis, but the thought of losing that type of player boils my blood. I get that the picks could be high ones and you could get a really good prospect but in reality the draft is a major crap shoot and I'll take the known star 22 year old player over 4 "maybes" every time.

Hockey is also a rare sport in that a lot of star players opt to stay with the team that drafted them. Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Toews, Kane, and Giroux are all examples of this. I'd like to keep it that way and encouraging offer sheets by lowering compensation goes against that grain. This is pure speculation, but I also think encouraging more offer sheets would create a toxic environment for the GM's and could discourage two GM's making trades with each other in the future even if two teams are perfect trading partners.
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14 juill. 2019 à 22 h 11
#23
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Quoting: blowing_the_zone
Lots of good points here. Just to pick up on a couple and add a thought


*I think this shift in the rfa landscape runs deeper than rising salaries for rfas. The game is changing and shifting to speed, skill and youth. But as these young guys eat up a greater percentage of the cap it's the middle class of players that are feeling the pinch. Regardless of what people think of the players union, it's the union that negotiates on the players behalf with the NHL owners. At a certain point I would assume that the majority of the players union (the middle class guys) start pushing back against this trend of paying super star rfas such a big percentage of the cap.

I love what you wrote you. As much as players will say publicly when one of their star team mates gets a big contract. "GREAT, he good paid......in the Leafs case Tavares, Matthews, Nylander and imagine Marner.....other players without as much leverage will be getting squeezed. Let's say the big four were paid less, maybe that might have meant, Johnsson and Kapenen would have been delighted to 1.25m and signed long term deals instead of signing short term deals for less money. Their long term financial security is at risk because the emphasize to pay/maybe overpay the stars.

There are about 800 NHLPA members. Betcha there are about 600 members wish that more money flowing down to the bottom end guys than concentrated on elite five guys per team. And those 600 have the majority on how they want contract demands are presented to the NHL. Plus those individual bottom end players as the same voting power as individual stars.

It kinda reminds why happen (apparently) in the past NBA negotiation with their players. There was a discussion about free agency and the pay scale. The player reps couldn't agree among themselves how their share of the pot should. be divided. Finally the owners said " The players are getting 50% of the revenues. No more. How you divide up among the players, we don't care. If you want to give all to Micheal Jordan...that OK with us."
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14 juill. 2019 à 22 h 37
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Quoting: palhal


Yeah, I think there is a definite shift on the horizon. There are just too few players benefitting in an exponential way vs how many guys, and teams, end up getting squeezed.

And your absolutely right Pal, each member of the union gets an equal vote. Marner's vote isn't worth one penny more than Connor Browns, and every other member of the union.

I like the example you gave with the NBA. I think there is a pretty significant difference though. In basketball 1 or 2 players can dominate a game . As such it kinda makes sense to pay those top guys so much. Hockey is a bit different in that it really is a team sport, and while the stars are hugely important to team success, they don't have the same game changing ability as NBA stars. Having the best player in hockey guaranteed nothing. Just ask the Oilers.

So as much as I could see the next CBA being a fight between the union and the owners, I could also see it being a fight between players in the union.
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15 juill. 2019 à 0 h 48
#25
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Quoting: blowing_the_zone

So as much as I could see the next CBA being a fight between the union and the owners, I could also see it being a fight between players in the union.


In the NHL? Yep
Remember shortly after the CBA was ratified by both sides, some players voiced their displeasure because they felt the middle tier and low tier player salaries took a huge hit?
Maybe this will be a bigger issue when CBA talks get closer to both sides negotiating.
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