Forums/NHL Trades

(MTL/CHI) - Shaw and 2021 7th round pick for 2020 2nd, 7th round pick, and 2021 3rd round pick

Who won the trade?
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1 jui 2019 à 8 h 19
#51
Rejoint: déc 2017
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Quoting: HabsForEver
... What?

His good trades outnumber his bad trades 3 for 1 for sure. He barely ever loses in a trade.


You can def. argue that the Drouin/Sergachev trade was a little short-sighted, but otherwise Bergevin has done a good job keeping MTL competitive.
1 jui 2019 à 8 h 45
#52
Rejoint: jun 2017
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Quoting: HabsForEver
Shaw 27, over a guy who is 26 with control?

Shaw was going to play 3rd line minutes next season, same with Armia

Armia plays PK time and has shown he has some chemistry with KK (wheras Shaw was Drouin and Domi and neither are going to play center next year)

Armia is going to cost a lot less and Shaw is coming off a career year with previous health scares.

I think Montreal did the best they could in this situation.


I wouldn’t be so sure about Domi not playing center. Armia would cost $1.4 million less max. And you call KK and Armia chemistry? More like KK carrying Armia on his back, while Armia drags him down. Shaw and Domi had more chemistry than Armia and KK. Hell, Shaw and KK has more chemistry than them. Andrew Shaw is a way better player than Joel Armia.
1 jui 2019 à 8 h 47
#53
Rejoint: jan 2019
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Quoting: EthanK24
I wouldn’t be so sure about Domi not playing center. Armia would cost $1.4 million less max. And you call KK and Armia chemistry? More like KK carrying Armia on his back, while Armia drags him down. Shaw and Domi had more chemistry than Armia and KK. Hell, Shaw and KK has more chemistry than them. Andrew Shaw is a way better player than Joel Armia.


Armia definitely held his own with KK. Sure, he's not as talented, but they compliment each other nicely. Who is out then?

Domi
Danault
Kotkaniemi
Poehling
Suzuki
Thompson

You can only have 4 play C
1 jui 2019 à 8 h 49
#54
Rejoint: jun 2017
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Quoting: Brian2016
You can def. argue that the Drouin/Sergachev trade was a little short-sighted, but otherwise Bergevin has done a good job keeping MTL competitive.


That trade was made under the impression that the habs were a contender, and the LHD position was looking fine since they didn’t think they would lose Markov, and probably though (shudder) that they would get a good UFA like Karl Alzner. Honestly, I find it hard to find one of Bergevin’s trades that was inarguably bad.
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1 jui 2019 à 8 h 51
#55
Rejoint: jun 2017
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Quoting: HabsForEver
Armia definitely held his own with KK. Sure, he's not as talented, but they compliment each other nicely. Who is out then?

Domi
Danault
Kotkaniemi
Poehling
Suzuki
Thompson

You can only have 4 play C


I go with Poehling at 4C, Suzuki in the AHL, and Thompson as a healthy scratch. Obviously if Suzuki pushes for a roster spot (at center) things would change, but that’s how I’d do it as of rn.
1 jui 2019 à 8 h 52
#56
Rejoint: jan 2019
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Quoting: EthanK24
I go with Poehling at 4C, Suzuki in the AHL, and Thompson as a healthy scratch. Obviously if Suzuki pushes for a roster spot (at center) things would change, but that’s how I’d do it as of rn.


You're going to play one of our most touted prospects on the 4th line? I don't think it's a good idea to give someone like that less than 10 minutes a night. I would rather he play top minutes in Laval than be a bench warmer in the NHL
1 jui 2019 à 9 h 15
#57
Rejoint: fév 2016
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To everyone saying the Habs got the same value back after the original trade I'd like to remind you that the 2 second round picks the Hawks got in the original trade were #39 and #45.
The picks in this trade will very likely be #47+, #78+, and #203+. The Hawks got Alex Debrincat with that 39th pick too btw.

As far as Shaw's contract, 3.9M for a 3rd line player that can play in all situations on any line is not bad these days and only gets more reasonable as the cap rises each year. How many 3rd liner UFA will we see deal MUCH greater than this today? Probably at least 4.
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1 jui 2019 à 9 h 20
#58
Rejoint: jan 2019
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Quoting: Hockeyplayer1
To everyone saying the Habs got the same value back after the original trade I'd like to remind you that the 2 second round picks the Hawks got in the original trade were #39 and #45.
The picks in this trade will very likely be #47+, #78+, and #203+. The Hawks got Alex Debrincat with that 39th pick too btw.

As far as Shaw's contract, 3.9M for a 3rd line player that can play in all situations on any line is not bad these days and only gets more reasonable as the cap rises each year. How many 3rd liner UFA will we see deal MUCH greater than this today? Probably at least 4.


You're joking right?

Chicago has no chance in making the playoffs and the pick will almost guaranteed be a top 40 pick. Montreal got to see what Shaw's true potential was and then traded him back after realizing it wasn't as good as originally though. He also had some bad concussion issues. but you're right, he's a good 3rd line player and that is why he was worth a 2nd + 3rd + 7th
1 jui 2019 à 9 h 43
#59
exo2769
Rejoint: jui 2015
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Quoting: HabsForEver
He loves to lose to Montreal.

The only reason he won the original Shaw trade was because he lucked out on the pick. He lost value in that trade, but the pick made up for it.

He should stop trading with Montreal


Alex Debrincat
1 jui 2019 à 9 h 46
#60
exo2769
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Modifié 1 jui 2019 à 9 h 54
Quoting: Hockeyplayer1
To everyone saying the Habs got the same value back after the original trade I'd like to remind you that the 2 second round picks the Hawks got in the original trade were #39 and #45.
The picks in this trade will very likely be #47+, #78+, and #203+. The Hawks got Alex Debrincat with that 39th pick too btw.

As far as Shaw's contract, 3.9M for a 3rd line player that can play in all situations on any line is not bad these days and only gets more reasonable as the cap rises each year. How many 3rd liner UFA will we see deal MUCH greater than this today? Probably at least 4.


I'm with ya. $3.9M with a cap of $81.5 is NOT the same as $3.9M with a cap of $75M...AND..forced to trade away assets to fit under the cap. The 1st Shaw trade was a position of weakness for Bowman...Still got the best player in the trade (Debrincat) and now gets Shaw back for a more reasonable cap hit relative to what everyone else is getting. Anyone thinking MB got the best of the trade must think that MB's in a position of weakness right now...because Bowman was certainly up against it in June of 2016.
1 jui 2019 à 10 h 07
#61
Rejoint: jan 2019
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Quoting: exo2769
I'm with ya. $3.9M with a cap of $81.5 is NOT the same as $3.9M with a cap of $75M...AND..forced to trade away assets to fit under the cap. The 1st Shaw trade was a position of weakness for Bowman...Still got the best player in the trade (Debrincat) and now gets Shaw back for a more reasonable cap hit relative to what everyone else is getting. Anyone thinking MB got the best of the trade must think that MB's in a position of weakness right now...because Bowman was certainly up against it in June of 2016.


Forced to trade away assets? Montreal has tons of cap space with nobody left to sign. Shaw is coming off a career year and Montreal traded him while his value is at a high. Bergevin traded a 2nd for Shaw, not Debrincat. Bergevin didn't draft Debrincat.
1 jui 2019 à 10 h 16
#62
exo2769
Rejoint: jui 2015
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Quoting: HabsForEver
Forced to trade away assets? Montreal has tons of cap space with nobody left to sign. Shaw is coming off a career year and Montreal traded him while his value is at a high. Bergevin traded a 2nd for Shaw, not Debrincat. Bergevin didn't draft Debrincat.


How can you say is value is at a high...when we know for a fact that he was worth (2) 2nds in 2016? I understand your point about the 2nd vs Debrincat. It's really not fair to say Debrincat. I get that. But Bowman was definitely in a forced position in 2016. He was REQUIRED to trade Shaw away and still got (2) 2nds. MB is NOT in a force position, but still couldn't even get at least (2) 2nds. The cap went up from $75 to $81.5M It's a win, win, win for Stan...and lose, lose, lose for MB...WITH 1 EXCEPTION...which to your point is indeed a real concern. concussions.
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1 jui 2019 à 10 h 21
#63
Rejoint: jan 2019
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Quoting: exo2769
How can you say is value is at a high...when we know for a fact that he was worth (2) 2nds in 2016? I understand your point about the 2nd vs Debrincat. It's really not fair to say Debrincat. I get that. But Bowman was definitely in a forced position in 2016. He was REQUIRED to trade Shaw away and still got (2) 2nds. MB is NOT in a force position, but still couldn't even get at least (2) 2nds. The cap went up from $75 to $81.5M It's a win, win, win for Stan...and lose, lose, lose for MB...WITH 1 EXCEPTION...which to your point is indeed a real concern. concussions.


Bergevin bought him at a high and sold him at a high. If we traded him last year, we most definitely wouldn't of got this for him. Bergevin thought he was getting a future top 6 forward and it didn't work out, so he got back what he paid for him. It makes sense for both teams.
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1 jui 2019 à 10 h 28
#64
exo2769
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Quoting: HabsForEver
Bergevin bought him at a high and sold him at a high. If we traded him last year, we most definitely wouldn't of got this for him. Bergevin thought he was getting a future top 6 forward and it didn't work out, so he got back what he paid for him. It makes sense for both teams.


That's fair. I just don't think MTL saw the best part of Shaw. He's a playoff beast and his style of play will be missed when you guys make the playoffs next year. AND I do think MTL will make the playoffs. I'm not AT ALL a MTL hater. I do think MB's doing a decent job. I was questioning him a few years back, but with all the prospects/assets he's acquired...MTL is looking good going forward. I voted fair to both sides to be honest. Stan definitely thinks the Hawks are playoff bound. I do to for what it's worth.
HabsForEver a aimé ceci.
1 jui 2019 à 10 h 41
#65
Rejoint: fév 2016
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Quoting: HabsForEver
You're joking right?

Chicago has no chance in making the playoffs and the pick will almost guaranteed be a top 40 pick.


Hahaha yeah because the Hawks weren't one of the better teams in the league over the second half of the season last year and haven't improved their deficiencies this offseason.
Hawks will very much make the playoffs this year.

Either way Hawks got two high 2nds for him and didn't have to pay his high cap for the first 3 years of his contract. This is a good deal for the Hawks. Habs can look at it as a win for themselves too.
1 jui 2019 à 10 h 42
#66
Rejoint: jan 2019
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Quoting: Hockeyplayer1
Hahaha yeah because the Hawks weren't one of the better teams in the league over the second half of the season last year and haven't improved their deficiencies this offseason.
Hawks will very much make the playoffs this year.


I will put $100 on it right now that they are a bottom 10 team in the league next year. Hawks have virtually no chance of making the playoffs unless they do something crazy in FA Frenzy
1 jui 2019 à 12 h 02
#67
Rejoint: mar 2017
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Quoting: HabsForEver
I will put $100 on it right now that they are a bottom 10 team in the league next year. Hawks have virtually no chance of making the playoffs unless they do something crazy in FA Frenzy


I'd actually prefer Hawks don't do anything crazy in FA. Even if they didn't do anything, they would still have a good change to make to playoffs, as they were pretty good from February on.
They are top 6 in offensive production last year and not much will change next year. The problem areas are Goals Against and PK. They got Maatta who should help with PK, blocking shots and just be a stay home shutdown guy. The got DeHaan, who will improve overall D. They got some of the top D prospects in the NHL right now in Joki, Boqvist, Boudin, Mitchell. They got 3rd OA pick in Dach, who can potentially play next year. They also got top Swiss league player Kubalik and nice Swedish player Wedin (multiple teams were after those two guys). Also Crow should be healthy this year, and even if he is not, they have young G prospect, who just won World Championship with Finns (shutdown Russian and only allowed 1 goal against Canada). And now they got a bit tougher and PK help with Shaw. And all that without giving anything up.
1 jui 2019 à 15 h 02
#68
exo2769
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Quoting: HabsForEver
I will put $100 on it right now that they are a bottom 10 team in the league next year. Hawks have virtually no chance of making the playoffs unless they do something crazy in FA Frenzy


Yeah, I dont agree with this at all. I'd take this bet. Keep in mind that its VERY rare that goalies have back to back career years. Bishop was FAR better last year than his previous 5 years and Bin is just like Matt Murray. Cant take ANYTHING away from him during that run, but teams will now scheme against him and the real goalie will find his level, hes not the next Hasek. Opposing teams weren't able to do that well last year due to lack of data.
HabsForEver et Hockeyplayer1 a aimé ceci.
1 jui 2019 à 15 h 12
#69
Blues GM v4
Rejoint: nov 2016
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The offer sheet has actually happened
1 jui 2019 à 15 h 16
#70
rangersandislesfan
Rejoint: mar 2017
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Quoting: krakowitz
The offer sheet has actually happened


Didn't see that coming ...
1 jui 2019 à 15 h 19
#71
exo2769
Rejoint: jui 2015
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Didn't see that coming ...


True, but CAR is going to match that.
1 jui 2019 à 15 h 20
#72
exo2769
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Quoting: krakowitz
The offer sheet has actually happened


Not a successful one...yet. MTL just extended, so I believe there's a week to match. SJS did it to hjalmarsson, but CHI matched. It's actually a good thing for CAR to be honest.
1 jui 2019 à 18 h 20
#73
Rejoint: aoû 2017
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Quoting: HabsForEver
... What?

His good trades outnumber his bad trades 3 for 1 for sure. He barely ever loses in a trade.


.....
2 jui 2019 à 14 h 16
#74
Discord COL's GM
Rejoint: mar 2018
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Chicago got 2 2nds for him, and Montreal got a 2nd and a 3rd for him. Lol Chicago won it overall.
2 jui 2019 à 23 h 28
#75
Rejoint: jun 2017
Messages: 553
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I always thought Shaw belonged on Chicago he was tough to face for Kings when they were SCF level franchise... I was so glad when they got rid of him because of what he said... Chicago had to run him out of town on a rail now they want to win so welcome home wink. WEird somebody had a batman picture that would hijack this post when I first clicked on it... IT would just keep showing that picture unable to return or do anything smile...
 
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