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Trading Up at the Draft with Edmonton

Créé par: CD282
Équipe: 2019-20 Sénateurs d'Ottawa
Date de création initiale: 17 juin 2019
Publié: 17 juin 2019
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
I have seen several proposals for trading back in Oilers forums and wanted to explore the idea here. Would Ottawa be willing to do something like this?

Here are similar trades, although none involve a top-10 pick, which carries great value on draft day.
Transactions
OTT
  1. Choix de 1e ronde en 2019 (EDM)
Détails additionnels:
2019: #8
EDM
  1. Choix de 1e ronde en 2019 (CBJ)
  2. Choix de 2e ronde en 2019 (OTT)
  3. Choix de 1e ronde en 2020 (SJS)
Détails additionnels:
2019: #19 + 32
2020: 25 (approx)
Rachats de contrats
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2019
Logo de EDM
Logo de FLA
Logo de PIT
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
2020
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Logo de CBJ
Logo de DAL
Logo de OTT
Logo de CBJ
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de SJS
Logo de STL
Logo de OTT
2021
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de CBJ
Logo de SJS
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
1883 000 000 $48 485 000 $0 $3 710 000 $34 515 000 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
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4 650 000 $4 650 000 $
AG
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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3 100 000 $3 100 000 $
C
UFA - 1
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925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance850 000 $$850K)
AD
UFA - 1
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4 000 000 $4 000 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
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2 937 500 $2 937 500 $
C
UFA - 1
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7 250 000 $7 250 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 3
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3 250 000 $3 250 000 $
AG, C
M-NTC
UFA - 2
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4 875 000 $4 875 000 $
AD
UFA - 2
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1 650 000 $1 650 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
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925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance2 500 000 $$2M)
AG
UFA - 2
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
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1 200 000 $1 200 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
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900 000 $900 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
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4 750 000 $4 750 000 $
G
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance360 000 $$360K)
DG
UFA - 1
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755 000 $755 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
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2 600 000 $2 600 000 $
G
UFA - 2
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725 000 $725 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
Logo de Sénateurs d'Ottawa
2 400 000 $2 400 000 $
G
UFA - 1

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17 juin 2019 à 14 h 15
#1
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I think EDM would rather use 8th OA to get an established player as opposed to 3 lower 1st round picks that wouldn't be ready for at least 2-4 years most likely.
17 juin 2019 à 14 h 16
#2
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For some reason the previous trades won't post in the Team Explanation, they are here:


2018
25 traded for 29 + 76
22 traded for 26 + 48

2017
26 traded for 29 + 70

2016
26 traded for 28 + 87
18 + 79 for 22 + 36
11 for 12 + 80

2015
29 for 34 + 68
28 for 33 + 72
24 for 29 + 61

2014
28 for 35 + 57

2013
18 for 20 + 58

2012
14 for 21 + 42

2011
22 for 30 + 39
24 for 35 + 48

2010
30 for 35 + 58
17 juin 2019 à 14 h 17
#3
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Quoting: villenash
I think EDM would rather use 8th OA to get an established player as opposed to 3 lower 1st round picks that wouldn't be ready for at least 2-4 years most likely.


I agree. As I stated at the top, I have seen this scenario suggested elsewhere and wanted to see what Ottawa fans thought about it.
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17 juin 2019 à 14 h 19
#4
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Not enough. The closest comparable I could find is in 2008 the 7th overall pick was traded for 9 + 40. They picked up a 2nd for moving down TWO spots. You are asking EDM to take essentially 2 seconds to move down TEN spots. Thats ridiculous/

I know it sucks, but there is no way of getting in the 8th overall pick without moving a A prospect.
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17 juin 2019 à 14 h 21
#5
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Unless some substantial cap is going back no way Edmonton does this.
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17 juin 2019 à 14 h 24
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Quoting: Eclipze
Unless some substantial cap is going back no way Edmonton does this.


Do you have something in mind?
17 juin 2019 à 14 h 53
#7
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Quoting: sammy_daws1997
Not enough. The closest comparable I could find is in 2008 the 7th overall pick was traded for 9 + 40. They picked up a 2nd for moving down TWO spots. You are asking EDM to take essentially 2 seconds to move down TEN spots. Thats ridiculous/

I know it sucks, but there is no way of getting in the 8th overall pick without moving a A prospect.


Great comment. Which Sens prospect would make up the value in your opinion? Would a guy like Batherson bridge the gap?
17 juin 2019 à 15 h 30
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Ok, I follow both the Oil and Sens very closely and would like to chime in.
I'll start off by saying we don't know the value of the #8 overall pick until we see how things shake up on draft day.
I'll also say that I do think the Sens should see if they can move up in this years draft. But I can assure you that the trade as mentioned above does not get done (both sides say no).
First, the Sens perspective:
A) Am I reading your trade offer correctly? Sens would offer the #19 and #32 (so same as a late 1st round) picks, AND the 2020 year's SJ 1st?????
So two 1sts and a VERY high 2nd which is essentially a low 1st.
Ridiculous.
2020 is set to be a very good draft year, NO way Sens trade away the 1st from SJ without knowing what its worth. Could be 31st pick, could be top 15. We don't know yet.
B) The #1 rule of drafting is: the more bullets the better. Why would an organization trade 3 attempts to getting a prospect for only 1?
C) That being said, replace the 2020 SJS pick with a prospect, and sure, this gets done.

Oilers:
Oilers need help now. McD + Drai prime years are age 23 to 27 and the organization can't risk shaving off multiple of those years waiting for prospects drafted in 2019 to develop.
Oilers shouldnt be stockpiling picks right now, they should be trading picks and prospects for better prospects that are able to come make a difference in the next couple seasons.
I really think that at the 8th overall spot, the oil could get a fairly good player and they should use the pick and keep it. Between #5 to #12, there is alot of parity/ no consensus therefore you are likely getting a good prospect. Keep that pick.
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17 juin 2019 à 15 h 34
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Quoting: villenash
I think EDM would rather use 8th OA to get an established player as opposed to 3 lower 1st round picks that wouldn't be ready for at least 2-4 years most likely.


If I was Edmonton I would be scared of the draft at this point.
17 juin 2019 à 15 h 47
#10
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Quoting: YvanF
Ok, I follow both the Oil and Sens very closely and would like to chime in.
I'll start off by saying we don't know the value of the #8 overall pick until we see how things shake up on draft day.
I'll also say that I do think the Sens should see if they can move up in this years draft. But I can assure you that the trade as mentioned above does not get done (both sides say no).
First, the Sens perspective:
A) Am I reading your trade offer correctly? Sens would offer the #19 and #32 (so same as a late 1st round) picks, AND the 2020 year's SJ 1st?????
So two 1sts and a VERY high 2nd which is essentially a low 1st.
Ridiculous.
2020 is set to be a very good draft year, NO way Sens trade away the 1st from SJ without knowing what its worth. Could be 31st pick, could be top 15. We don't know yet.
B) The #1 rule of drafting is: the more bullets the better. Why would an organization trade 3 attempts to getting a prospect for only 1?
C) That being said, replace the 2020 SJS pick with a prospect, and sure, this gets done.

Oilers:
Oilers need help now. McD + Drai prime years are age 23 to 27 and the organization can't risk shaving off multiple of those years waiting for prospects drafted in 2019 to develop.
Oilers shouldnt be stockpiling picks right now, they should be trading picks and prospects for better prospects that are able to come make a difference in the next couple seasons.
I really think that at the 8th overall spot, the oil could get a fairly good player and they should use the pick and keep it. Between #5 to #12, there is alot of parity/ no consensus therefore you are likely getting a good prospect. Keep that pick.


I think they keep it too, and it should be noted that nobody trades high picks in the weeks before the draft. Any such trade would happen on the draft floor, when Edmonton knows who is on the board at #8 and can then make an educated decision.

In your opinion, would Ottawa trade 19 + 32 + Batherson for 8? Should Edmonton accept such an offer?
17 juin 2019 à 15 h 56
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Quoting: Buckoleboy
If I was Edmonton I would be scared of the draft at this point.


Why? They've been drafting fairly well since 2015.
17 juin 2019 à 16 h 1
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Quoting: CD282
Why? They've been drafting fairly well since 2015.


Yeah, and they've been drafting well for other teams since before that.
17 juin 2019 à 16 h 2
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Quoting: CD282

In your opinion, would Ottawa trade 19 + 32 + Batherson for 8? Should Edmonton accept such an offer?


No. Batherson is on their untoucheable list. Watch him play. He wasn't drafted very high, nor did he have big numbers in the Q. But he is a great prospect. His play translates very well to the pro level. He dominated the AHL (62 points in 59 games), then played 20 games in the NHL on a TERRIBLE team and had a PPG stat of close to .50. Which is 3rd line production as a first year pro.
He is a very good prospect and OTT will NOT be looking to get rid of him.
To be honest, and I don't want this to happen, but replace Batherson with Formenton and I think that is a much more realistic trade. Formenton has wheels. Insane wheels. Its his greatest attribute. Very skilled as well but just needs his hands to follow his feet (meaning producing at high speed). He needs another year in the AHL to maybe translate his game to the pro level/speed.
Watching the Oilers and Sens ALOT, I keep thinking, MAN, if Formenton was on McD's wing. WOWZERSS!!

Also, if the Sens are trading up, it won't be their 32nd pick.
Itll be their 19th overall + Florida 2nd (44th overall) + prospect
17 juin 2019 à 16 h 8
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Quoting: YvanF
No. Batherson is on their untoucheable list. Watch him play. He wasn't drafted very high, nor did he have big numbers in the Q. But he is a great prospect. His play translates very well to the pro level. He dominated the AHL (62 points in 59 games), then played 20 games in the NHL on a TERRIBLE team and had a PPG stat of close to .50. Which is 3rd line production as a first year pro.
He is a very good prospect and OTT will NOT be looking to get rid of him.
To be honest, and I don't want this to happen, but replace Batherson with Formenton and I think that is a much more realistic trade. Formenton has wheels. Insane wheels. Its his greatest attribute. Very skilled as well but just needs his hands to follow his feet (meaning producing at high speed). He needs another year in the AHL to maybe translate his game to the pro level/speed.
Watching the Oilers and Sens ALOT, I keep thinking, MAN, if Formenton was on McD's wing. WOWZERSS!!


Batherson produced in the AHL at about the same pace as Tyler Benson, so that's the Oilers comparable, not an A+ prospect but a guy that projects as a middle-6 forward who ins NHL ready. Formenton reminds me of Ryan McLeod somewhat - would you think they're on a similar level?
17 juin 2019 à 16 h 10
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Quoting: YvanF
Also, if the Sens are trading up, it won't be their 32nd pick.
Itll be their 19th overall + Florida 2nd (44th overall) + prospect


Every post you make the offer gets weaker and weaker. At this point, 19 + 44 + Formenton is not enough to pry the 8 pick out of Edmonton.
17 juin 2019 à 16 h 12
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Quoting: Buckoleboy
Yeah, and they've been drafting well for other teams since before that.


So? What does that have to do with 2019?
17 juin 2019 à 16 h 18
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Quoting: CD282
Batherson produced in the AHL at about the same pace as Tyler Benson, so that's the Oilers comparable, not an A+ prospect but a guy that projects as a middle-6 forward who ins NHL ready. Formenton reminds me of Ryan McLeod somewhat - would you think they're on a similar level?


Although I understand your comparison between Benson and Batherson, I must respectfully disagree.
You are comparing both players in a vacuum (last year production) in one league. Benson played all his games in one league (didn't get yoyo'd up and down various teams on various lines with various teammates). Benson played with a much better team (teammates). More importantly, the Condors had an excellent D squad which enabled Benson to play more aggressive and offensively. The B-Sens had a BRUTAL defense last year and were often struck by injuries to key players.
I really like Benson and agree, he will be an efficient middle six player in the future.
But his skill and hockey sense are not at the same level, which are the primary tools used to evaluate ceiling potentials. In other words, Batherson has 1st line ceiling, Benson does not.
17 juin 2019 à 16 h 22
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Quoting: CD282
Every post you make the offer gets weaker and weaker. At this point, 19 + 44 + Formenton is not enough to pry the 8 pick out of Edmonton.


Lol. Fair enough. I guess the more I look at it, and the more I think about it, the less I'm willing to sell the farm for 1 pick.
I do really think the Sens should move up. I think if you send your #19 + #44, you offer it and see who takes you up on it.

You are correct in that what I offered doesn't net you the 8th overall. But perhaps its gets you #14-15-16-17. Move up a couple spots to get you the guy you want.
17 juin 2019 à 16 h 32
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If you're
Quoting: CD282
Formenton reminds me of Ryan McLeod somewhat - would you think they're on a similar level?


Yes. Both have middle six upside. Both have wheels.
But both play very different games too. Formenton is a prototypical speedy sniper winger. While Mcleod plays a much better two-way game and will be a good 3C right out of the box with potential for 2C.

Good reads:
https://dobberprospects.com/player/alex-formenton/
https://dobberprospects.com/player/ryan-mcleod/
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17 juin 2019 à 17 h 7
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Quoting: YvanF
Although I understand your comparison between Benson and Batherson, I must respectfully disagree.
You are comparing both players in a vacuum (last year production) in one league. Benson played all his games in one league (didn't get yoyo'd up and down various teams on various lines with various teammates). Benson played with a much better team (teammates). More importantly, the Condors had an excellent D squad which enabled Benson to play more aggressive and offensively. The B-Sens had a BRUTAL defense last year and were often struck by injuries to key players.
I really like Benson and agree, he will be an efficient middle six player in the future.
But his skill and hockey sense are not at the same level, which are the primary tools used to evaluate ceiling potentials. In other words, Batherson has 1st line ceiling, Benson does not.


Speaking of getting yoyo'd up and down various teams on various lines with various teammates - I just realised that Batherson is 11 days older than Jesse Puljujarvi.
17 juin 2019 à 18 h 8
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Quoting: CD282
Speaking of getting yoyo'd up and down various teams on various lines with various teammates - I just realised that Batherson is 11 days older than Jesse Puljujarvi.


Yep. Batherson was passed over in the draft in 2016. Then Sens picked him up as an over-ager in 2017.

But Sens have a long history of picking diamonds in the rough (Mark Stone (6th), Hoffman (5th), Dzingel (7th)).

But I agree that JP should have been left in the ahl and the direct repercussions of the yoyo'ing are being seen today on his development / confidence / post ELC contract negotiations.
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18 juin 2019 à 8 h 13
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Quoting: CD282
Great comment. Which Sens prospect would make up the value in your opinion? Would a guy like Batherson bridge the gap?


Batherson is exactly who I was thinking actually
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18 juin 2019 à 8 h 48
#23
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Quoting: sammy_daws1997
Batherson is exactly who I was thinking actually


I would have to seriously consider that deal. Depends what's still available at #8, I guess.
18 juin 2019 à 11 h 20
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Quoting: sammy_daws1997
Batherson is exactly who I was thinking actually


You're never going to get Batherson. You are not assessing players correctly if you are asking for Batherson as incentive for moving up in the draft (specially for the Sens) as Batherson is the Sens equivalent of Bouchard.
The oilers may trade one of their esteemed LD. But due to their lack of depth at RD as well as the sheer promise that Bouchard represents, he aint going nowhere. The same could be said about Batherson.
Also, why would you want another centreman. The Oil need a good 3C. That is not going to be a rookie/prospect. That slot will be filled by a more veteran player (due to the tougher zone and faceoff assignments). The oil need promising speedy wingers. Formenton IS that. Abramov would be another perfect candidate (but I feel he is too much like Yamamoto and wouldn't be recommended).

That being said, as mentioned earlier, Sens are bursting at the seams with Centre's and if you are seeking a C (which I don't understand since you've already got 97, 29 and 93), you'd have better luck grabbing another one of their centre prospect, such as Norris.
18 juin 2019 à 15 h 52
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Quoting: YvanF
You're never going to get Batherson. You are not assessing players correctly if you are asking for Batherson as incentive for moving up in the draft (specially for the Sens) as Batherson is the Sens equivalent of Bouchard.
The oilers may trade one of their esteemed LD. But due to their lack of depth at RD as well as the sheer promise that Bouchard represents, he aint going nowhere. The same could be said about Batherson.
Also, why would you want another centreman. The Oil need a good 3C. That is not going to be a rookie/prospect. That slot will be filled by a more veteran player (due to the tougher zone and faceoff assignments). The oil need promising speedy wingers. Formenton IS that. Abramov would be another perfect candidate (but I feel he is too much like Yamamoto and wouldn't be recommended).

That being said, as mentioned earlier, Sens are bursting at the seams with Centre's and if you are seeking a C (which I don't understand since you've already got 97, 29 and 93), you'd have better luck grabbing another one of their centre prospect, such as Norris.


Im not saying the sens would do it. Im saying the oilers would want that for the 8th overall pick.
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