Forums/Armchair-GM

Realistic Barzal Trade

Créé par: TheExpert
Date de création initiale: jan 27, 2019
Publié: 27 jan 2019 à 12 h 25
Équipe: 2018-19 Penguins de Pittsburgh
Explications
With all the Barzal posts that have been made after the ASG (and yes, I know they're mostly just for fun) I feel obliged to explain why the Penguins don't need him. The first reason is the asking price. Since the Islanders are currently in first place, they're not going to take a package of picks. The only player on the Pens roster that they would likely be interested in is Guentzel since he's young and on a similar trajectory as Barzal. Taking a look at some of their stats, there's a lot of similarities.

Guentzel: 47 points, 24 goals, 8.1 relative Corsi, and 54.8 FF%
Barzal: 45 points, 14 goals, 7.1 relative Corsi, and 53.0 FF%

The only difference is the goals total, which shouldn't come as a surprise since Guentzel has Crosby creating opportunities for him. Theoretically, if Barzal was swapped out for Guentzel in the 3-on-3 tournament you could expect the same results.

You can add whatever you think is necessary to balance out the value, and let me know in the poll below if you would still want to make that trade from the Penguins perspective.
Transactions
PIT
  1. Barzal, Mathew
NYI
  1. Guentzel, Jake
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Nick Bjugstad: 2 050 000 $ (50%)
  • Carl Hagelin: 250 000 $ (6%)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2018
2019
PIT
PIT
PIT
BUF
PIT
PIT
VGK
2020
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
2021
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2379 500 000 $80 503 225 $0 $1 250 000 $-1 003 225 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
NYI
Barzal, Mathew
863 333 $
C
RFA - 2
PIT
Crosby, Sidney
8 700 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 7
PIT
Rust, Bryan
3 500 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 4
PIT
Pearson, Tanner
3 750 000 $
AG
UFA - 3
PIT
Malkin, Evgeni
9 500 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 4
PIT
Kessel, Phil
6 800 000 $
AD
NMC NTC
UFA - 4
PIT
Simon, Dominik
750 000 $
AD, AG
RFA - 2
PIT
Brassard, Derick
3 000 000 $
AG, C
NTC
UFA - 1
PIT
Hörnqvist, Patric
5 300 000 $
AD
NTC
UFA - 5
PIT
Sheahan, Riley
2 100 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 1
PIT
Cullen, Matt
650 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 1
PIT
Aston-Reese, Zach
925 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
PIT
Dumoulin, Brian
4 100 000 $
DG
UFA - 5
PIT
Letang, Kris
7 250 000 $
DD
NMC NTC
UFA - 4
PIT
Murray, Matt
3 750 000 $
G
UFA - 2
PIT
Määttä, Olli
3 333 225 $
DG
UFA - 4
PIT
Schultz, Justin
5 500 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 2
PIT
DeSmith, Casey
675 000 $
G
UFA - 1
PIT
Pettersson, Marcus
794 167 $
DG
UFA - 1
PIT
Johnson, Jack
3 250 000 $
DG
UFA - 5
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
PIT
Wilson, Garrett
650 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
PIT
Oleksiak, Jamie
2 137 500 $
DG
UFA - 3
PIT
Riikola, Juuso
925 000 $
DG
UFA - 1

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Is Barzal worth losing Guentzel?
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27 jan 2019 à 12 h 27
#1
Rejoint: jan 2017
Messages: 11,133
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Islanders laugh at you.
SammyT_51, Maniac23, KrisBeKreame and 2 others a aimé ceci.
27 jan 2019 à 12 h 29
#2
Démarrer sujet
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Quoting: Gofnut999
Islanders laugh at you.


Did you read the description, mate?
27 jan 2019 à 12 h 29
#3
Rejoint: aoû 2018
Messages: 175
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Quoting: Gofnut999
Islanders laugh at you.


So do I and everyone elso who watched a single hockey game in his life. ?
Gofnut999 a aimé ceci.
27 jan 2019 à 12 h 31
#4
Rejoint: jan 2017
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Modifié 27 jan 2019 à 12 h 39
Quoting: TheExpert
Did you read the description, mate?


Yup. They laugh even harder. Barzal is a franchise player. Guentzel is a very good complimrntary piece. It’s would be the equivalent to to Boston offering Krejci for Crosby a dozen years ago. Trying to justify this makes you look foolish.
Yojimbo a aimé ceci.
27 jan 2019 à 12 h 31
#5
Let'sGoBlues | WPGv4
Rejoint: jun 2016
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what about age, position, and any individual skill/talent assessment that isnt reflected in point totals and corsi/fenwick. Barzal is flat out a better hockey player. He's a magician out there.
HotsamBatcho a aimé ceci.
27 jan 2019 à 12 h 37
#6
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Quoting: A_K
what about age, position, and any individual skill/talent assessment that isnt reflected in point totals and corsi/fenwick. Barzal is flat out a better hockey player. He's a magician out there.


Well, that's not the point of this thread. This is a direct response to all the whacky Barzal trades Pens fans have come up with. Obviously, it wouldn't be a straight up trade, but the centerpiece of the package would have to be Guentzel. My point is that it wouldn't be a trade worth making for the Penguins.
27 jan 2019 à 12 h 39
#7
Rejoint: nov 2017
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This is embarrassing.
Gofnut999 a aimé ceci.
27 jan 2019 à 12 h 40
#8
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I mean, the closest thing to a fair trade is Barzal + something for Malkin and that isnt happening
27 jan 2019 à 12 h 42
#9
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Quoting: Gofnut999
Yup. They laugh even harder.


Maybe so, but who cares? Add whatever you think is necessary to get the Islanders to say yes and tell me, is it really a trade worth making for the Penguins?
27 jan 2019 à 12 h 47
#10
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
I mean, the closest thing to a fair trade is Barzal + something for Malkin and that isnt happening


The trade itself isn't really that important. Malkin isn't getting traded, so Guentzel would probably be the centerpiece of any package for Barzal. With all the assets the Penguins would have to give up, is it really worth it when you already have a player producing similar numbers?
27 jan 2019 à 12 h 52
#11
Rejoint: jan 2017
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Quoting: TheExpert
Maybe so, but who cares? Add whatever you think is necessary to get the Islanders to say yes and tell me, is it really a trade worth making for the Penguins?


The islanders don’t say yes. Period. You would never pay the price you’d have to pay to get him. There is no incentive to move him. To give them one you’d have to ridiculously overpay. What is the going rate for a 21 year old franchise player with another year still left on his ELC? Take that and multiply it by 2 and maybe you get them to the table. Maybe.
27 jan 2019 à 12 h 54
#12
Rejoint: nov 2017
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Quoting: TheExpert
The trade itself isn't really that important. Malkin isn't getting traded, so Guentzel would probably be the centerpiece of any package for Barzal. With all the assets the Penguins would have to give up, is it really worth it when you already have a player producing similar numbers?


Barzal is a center and the face of their franchise that just lost Tavares. Barzal also put up 85 points last year to Guentzel's 48. Guentzel is a winger who is 2 years older too.

Barzal will not be traded. Stop fooling yourself.
27 jan 2019 à 12 h 56
#13
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Quoting: TheExpert
The trade itself isn't really that important. Malkin isn't getting traded, so Guentzel would probably be the centerpiece of any package for Barzal. With all the assets the Penguins would have to give up, is it really worth it when you already have a player producing similar numbers?


Why would the pens even want to trade Guentzel? He's proven to play very well with Crosby, and he's arguably been the best goal scorer in the playoffs the past 2 years
TheExpert et awesome a aimé ceci.
27 jan 2019 à 13 h 04
#14
CPDunn Untouchable
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Quoting: TheExpert
Did you read the description, mate?


Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Why would the pens even want to trade Guentzel? He's proven to play very well with Crosby, and he's arguably been the best goal scorer in the playoffs the past 2 years


Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
I mean, the closest thing to a fair trade is Barzal + something for Malkin and that isnt happening


Quoting: A_K
what about age, position, and any individual skill/talent assessment that isnt reflected in point totals and corsi/fenwick. Barzal is flat out a better hockey player. He's a magician out there.


Quoting: Maniac23
So do I and everyone elso who watched a single hockey game in his life. ?


I just want to Point out he said semi realistic it's never realistic if Barzal is being traded.
27 jan 2019 à 13 h 05
#15
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Quoting: Gofnut999
The islanders don’t say yes. Period. You would never pay the price you’d have to pay to get him. There is no incentive to move him. To give them one you’d have to ridiculously overpay. What is the going rate for a 21 year old franchise player with another year still left on his ELC? Take that and multiply it by 2 and maybe you get them to the table. Maybe.


You're halfway there. Now, would that ridiculous overpayment really be worth it for the Penguins? Think about it, they would have the most top-heavy team in the NHL and nobody to fall back on besides Barzal when Crosby and Malkin regress. I doubt that group would be successful long-term. Maybe they could win a cup now, but that's something they can already do with their current roster.
27 jan 2019 à 13 h 05
#16
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Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
I just want to Point out he said semi realistic it's never realistic if Barzal is being traded.


there’s been wayyyyyy worse proposals on here
TheExpert a aimé ceci.
27 jan 2019 à 13 h 07
#17
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Why would the pens even want to trade Guentzel? He's proven to play very well with Crosby, and he's arguably been the best goal scorer in the playoffs the past 2 years


I appreciate you, I feel like my point has flown over everyone else's head.
27 jan 2019 à 13 h 08
#18
Rejoint: mai 2018
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Quoting: TheExpert
I appreciate you, I feel like my point has flown over everyone else's head.


Ya well I don’t think it makes sense for either team. Only way the Islanders will even consider trading Barzal is for an extreme overpayment, which would hurt the pens more than help
27 jan 2019 à 13 h 09
#19
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
Barzal is a center and the face of their franchise that just lost Tavares. Barzal also put up 85 points last year to Guentzel's 48. Guentzel is a winger who is 2 years older too.

Barzal will not be traded. Stop fooling yourself.


Well, obviously. The Pens would have to absolutely overpay to get him. My entire point is that it wouldn't be worth it.
27 jan 2019 à 13 h 17
#20
Islanders Fan
Rejoint: mai 2016
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I could honestly argue against trading Barzal for Crosby straight up. I read the description, your logic is flawed and this isn't even remotely close
27 jan 2019 à 13 h 17
#21
Rejoint: nov 2017
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Quoting: TheExpert
Well, obviously. The Pens would have to absolutely overpay to get him. My entire point is that it wouldn't be worth it.


So you created a team suggesting that Barzal on the pens would be good and then said it won't work.

Just log off the internet.

I'll create a team that has an alien, george washington and jesus christ on the sabres and then tell everyone who comments that it wouldn't really be worth it and to read the description.
moli92 a aimé ceci.
27 jan 2019 à 13 h 21
#22
Rejoint: jan 2017
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Quoting: TheExpert
You're halfway there. Now, would that ridiculous overpayment really be worth it for the Penguins? Think about it, they would have the most top-heavy team in the NHL and nobody to fall back on besides Barzal when Crosby and Malkin regress. I doubt that group would be successful long-term. Maybe they could win a cup now, but that's something they can already do with their current roster.


They are going to try to cripple you in order to aquire him considering you are in the same division. You would have to make it impossible for them to say no. I doubt you can.

There is a better chance of me winning the Powerball then there is of the Isles trading Barzal to the Penguins. Lol.
27 jan 2019 à 13 h 25
#23
Rejoint: jan 2017
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
there’s been wayyyyyy worse proposals on here


Well that is certainly true. Just go to the Canadiens ACGMs where every single post is Lehkonnen. Hudon, and Reilly for an All-Star.
hockeyfanatic05 et TheExpert a aimé ceci.
27 jan 2019 à 13 h 29
#24
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Quoting: Gofnut999
They are going to try to cripple you in order to aquire him considering you are in the same division. You would have to make it impossible for them to say no. I doubt you can.

There is a better chance of me winning the Powerball then there is of the Isles trading Barzal to the Penguins. Lol.


And that's the only point I'm really trying to make. As nice as it would be to add a player like Barzal, everything they'd have to subtract to acquire him is just too much for one player to offset.
27 jan 2019 à 13 h 32
#25
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Quoting: joshelkin
I could honestly argue against trading Barzal for Crosby straight up. I read the description, your logic is flawed and this isn't even remotely close


The trade was never meant to be close, it's just a starting point to negotiations. Think about the package you would need to send him to Pittsburgh. That would cripple the Pens, would it not?
 
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