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Granlund and Zucker may be available what would you give

Créé par: TanSor
Équipe: 2018-19 Wild du Minnesota
Date de création initiale: 23 janv. 2019
Publié: 23 janv. 2019
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Michael Russo (our beat writer who is always reliable with his info) name dropped Granlund and Zucker as potential players that could be moved. Here's my source (it's a podcast):

https://www.spreaker.com/user/talknorth/russosouhan-179?utm_medium=widget&utm_source=user%3A10497705&utm_term=episode_title

Happens from 3:49 to 4:40 where a Granlund trade is first mentioned by Souhan (the first guy talking) and Russo (the second guy talking) confirms that this is a logical move.

From 5:10 to 5:55 Russo talks about a timetable to trade Granlund and Zucker is mentioned as another possible guy that could be moved before July 1st.




So, what would you give for these two guys? The Wild need right shot forwards but it wouldn't necessarily have to be a right shot guy. A center would be preferable, but it could be a winger (or someone that can play both). We really need guys that can skate as well. We are set at D, and I don't see us moving any picks in a package.
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    23 janv. 2019 à 19 h 34
    #26
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    Quoting: wabit
    That's awful for MN with Horton attached. Nylander hasn't really lit the world on fire after his holdout to keep his value high.


    Meh, just put him on LTIR. He's most likely done in the NHL. Nylander stepped into a league that was 2 months ahead of him in terms of physique, so I'm taking this year with a grain of salt since he's basically stuck playing catch-up the whole year. I still think he's a fantastic playmaker with a hard shot.
    23 janv. 2019 à 19 h 35
    #27
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    Quoting: arousedcat
    I had never heard anything about Toffoli to the Wild until he talked about it. Sure, people talked about moving Toffoli here since he's a right shot, but there wasn't any substance to it. He reported the Brad Hunt trade, so there's a point to it.


    Russo was too busy fawning over Pierre to notice anything happening. His reporting on the Hunt trade was retweeting the Wild twitter account.
    23 janv. 2019 à 19 h 45
    #28
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    Quoting: wabit
    Russo was too busy fawning over Pierre to notice anything happening. His reporting on the Hunt trade was retweeting the Wild twitter account.


    Yes, but he was able to get an inside scoop of what it's like to be traded from the player's perspective in his article about it. May have been luck that it happened, but the fact he was able to do it is way more impressive than any of us could do.
    23 janv. 2019 à 19 h 48
    #29
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    Quoting: arousedcat
    Meh, just put him on LTIR. He's most likely done in the NHL. Nylander stepped into a league that was 2 months ahead of him in terms of physique, so I'm taking this year with a grain of salt since he's basically stuck playing catch-up the whole year. I still think he's a fantastic playmaker with a hard shot.


    You're paying the guy $6m/yr and giving up 2 roster players. Sending away $8m in cap, but it'll cost $14m to the Wild's cap make the trade. You've handcuffed any FA moves this year because of Horton and his dead cap. It's not like Nylander was injured and couldn't at least keep in some sort of hockey shape. Kunin has better numbers than Nylander this year and he missed the entire offseason. Parise had back surgery and still produced last year, Suter couldn't even put weight on his leg until training camp and he still plays at a high level. I'm not giving anyone a pass because they willfully heldout then don't produce.

    Ennis somehow managed to put up 7g/4a (13 more games) before he got injured on this Tor team.
    23 janv. 2019 à 19 h 50
    #30
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    Quoting: arousedcat
    Yes, but he was able to get an inside scoop of what it's like to be traded from the player's perspective in his article about it. May have been luck that it happened, but the fact he was able to do it is way more impressive than any of us could do.


    They took the same plane (that was delayed). Anyone with media credentials could have gotten the same story. There isn't much to do while waiting for a delayed flight. I guess he could have played the slots in the airport, instead?
    23 janv. 2019 à 20 h 0
    #31
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    Quoting: wabit
    You're paying the guy $6m/yr and giving up 2 roster players. Sending away $8m in cap, but it'll cost $14m to the Wild's cap make the trade. You've handcuffed any FA moves this year because of Horton and his dead cap. It's not like Nylander was injured and couldn't at least keep in some sort of hockey shape. Kunin has better numbers than Nylander this year and he missed the entire offseason. Parise had back surgery and still produced last year, Suter couldn't even put weight on his leg until training camp and he still plays at a high level. I'm not giving anyone a pass because they willfully heldout then don't produce.

    Ennis somehow managed to put up 7g/4a (13 more games) before he got injured on this Tor team.


    If he's on LTIR he won't count towards the cap... So it's not dead cap. If you buy him out then it is. No Nylander isn't injured, but you can't expect a guy that hasn't played a lick in the NHL to be tossed in midseason and perform. I don't care who the player is. There's a reason hockey isn't as exciting in the beginning of the season and it's because everyone isn't to their regular-form yet. Nylander has had to get to his regular form while everyone else already is that, so that's why he hasn't performed well. Both Suter and Parise started pretty much in the beginning of the year, so it wasn't an issue.

    Here's an analogy: You start going to group fitness training at your local fitness club, and everyone else has already been doing it for a while. Do you really expect to be able to do what everyone else can on the first day? If you've every exercised before, you'll know the answer is no. You have to build your way up before you can perform at a high level. Now take that back to hockey where instead of working with a group, you're working against them in a professional sports game. You can't expect somebody that didn't go through training camp, preseason, or the first few months of the regular season to be thrown in and play at a high level. The kinesiology and physiology of your body doesn't work like that.
    23 janv. 2019 à 20 h 1
    #32
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    Modifié 23 janv. 2019 à 20 h 9
    Quoting: wabit
    They took the same plane (that was delayed). Anyone with media credentials could have gotten the same story. There isn't much to do while waiting for a delayed flight. I guess he could have played the slots in the airport, instead?


    Like I said, he mostly lucked into it, but he still did it which is more than a normal fan could do.

    My statement was that he reported it, and that's accurate with his story about a trade from the players perspective.
    23 janv. 2019 à 20 h 12
    #33
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    Draisaitl & Pulliarvi for Granlund &!Zucker?
    TanSor a aimé ceci.
    23 janv. 2019 à 20 h 15
    #34
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    Quoting: Rocky
    Draisaitl & Pulliarvi for Granlund &!Zucker?


    I would definitely take that if I were GM!
    23 janv. 2019 à 20 h 44
    #35
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    Quoting: arousedcat
    If he's on LTIR he won't count towards the cap... So it's not dead cap. If you buy him out then it is. No Nylander isn't injured, but you can't expect a guy that hasn't played a lick in the NHL to be tossed in midseason and perform. I don't care who the player is. There's a reason hockey isn't as exciting in the beginning of the season and it's because everyone isn't to their regular-form yet. Nylander has had to get to his regular form while everyone else already is that, so that's why he hasn't performed well. Both Suter and Parise started pretty much in the beginning of the year, so it wasn't an issue.

    Here's an analogy: You start going to group fitness training at your local fitness club, and everyone else has already been doing it for a while. Do you really expect to be able to do what everyone else can on the first day? If you've every exercised before, you'll know the answer is no. You have to build your way up before you can perform at a high level. Now take that back to hockey where instead of working with a group, you're working against them in a professional sports game. You can't expect somebody that didn't go through training camp, preseason, or the first few months of the regular season to be thrown in and play at a high level. The kinesiology and physiology of your body doesn't work like that.


    Parise last year coming off a back surgery, where he couldn't do anything, came back midseason and still put up better numbers than Nylander. Suter started the season, but had no preseason games, a limited camp, and no offseason workouts.

    It was Nylander's choice to miss all of the preseason and 20 games of the year. So if he lays an egg it's on him, no passes. He's a $10m player this season putting up numbers like a league min 4th liner (J.T. Brown). You're paying him slightly more than Zucker + Spurgeon (50% retained) because of the retained money. That's 90p-100p for those 2 players combined, Nylander doesn't make up that difference. The late 1st is nice, but 3+ years away from doing anything, if at all.

    If Horton's cap doesn't matter Tor can just keep him then with no harm no foul, right? Unless you get Horton's full cap hit as LTIR (unlikely) it's dead cap. He also eats up a spot on the 50 man roster.
    23 janv. 2019 à 20 h 45
    #36
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    Quoting: Rocky
    Draisaitl & Pulliarvi for Granlund &!Zucker?


    The new EDM GM should be fired for that.
    23 janv. 2019 à 20 h 57
    #37
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    Quoting: wabit
    Parise last year coming off a back surgery, where he couldn't do anything, came back midseason and still put up better numbers than Nylander. Suter started the season, but had no preseason games, a limited camp, and no offseason workouts.

    It was Nylander's choice to miss all of the preseason and 20 games of the year. So if he lays an egg it's on him, no passes. He's a $10m player this season putting up numbers like a league min 4th liner (J.T. Brown). You're paying him slightly more than Zucker + Spurgeon (50% retained) because of the retained money. That's 90p-100p for those 2 players combined, Nylander doesn't make up that difference. The late 1st is nice, but 3+ years away from doing anything, if at all.

    If Horton's cap doesn't matter Tor can just keep him then with no harm no foul, right? Unless you get Horton's full cap hit as LTIR (unlikely) it's dead cap. He also eats up a spot on the 50 man roster.


    This isn't true about Parise... He practiced all offseason with his herniated disc and din't get surgery until October 24th. He was out of the lineup for about 2 months and returned January 2nd. Here's my source: http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nhl/1655/zach-parise So Parise practiced all offseason, had preseason games, and a few regular season games.

    Suter underwent a major surgery and skated with the team all offseason, participated in a couple preseason games, and started the year with everyone else. Same source for Suter. Both of these situations are extremely different from Nylander since Nylander didn't practice with the team until he signed a deal December 1st.

    Yes, you're right about Horton. I think Toronto more just wouldn't want him taking up the roster spot. Leipold would still have to pay him his salary but he wouldn't count towards our cap on LTIR.
    23 janv. 2019 à 21 h 11
    #38
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    Quoting: arousedcat
    This isn't true about Parise... He practiced all offseason with his herniated disc and din't get surgery until October 24th. He was out of the lineup for about 2 months and returned January 2nd. Here's my source: http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nhl/1655/zach-parise

    Suter underwent a major surgery and skated with the team all offseason. Same source for Suter. Both of these situations are different from Nylander since Nylander didn't practice with the team until he signed a deal December 1st.

    Yes, you're right about Horton. I think they more just wouldn't want the roster spot.


    Skating with the team in preseason practice is the same as any practice Nylander could have been doing on his own. 2 months Parise was out and came back with almost no practice/conditioning time, anything he gained from any offseason work was lost over that time of doing nothing. These guys are 10+ years older than Nylander too. Do you think Nylander was just sitting on the couch drinking beer and eating chicken wings and chips since the season ended last year?

    It's been almost 2 months and Nylander isn't lookling like he's coming out of his funk. That is enough time to get in game shape. He gets to play with 1 of 3 30g centers, it's not like he's stuck on a line with Foligno and JEE playing a Yeo trap game. The assists should at least be happening.
    23 janv. 2019 à 21 h 45
    #39
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    Quoting: wabit
    That's awful for MN with Horton attached. Nylander hasn't really lit the world on fire after his holdout to keep his value high.


    Horton is only attached so Toronto can pay thier guys Bounces that’s why we’re getting a 2020 1st round pick
    23 janv. 2019 à 21 h 56
    #40
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    Quoting: Bergeron1705
    Horton is only attached so Toronto can pay thier guys Bounces that’s why we’re getting a 2020 1st round pick


    Add another 1st then.
    24 janv. 2019 à 9 h 24
    #41
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    Quoting: wabit
    Skating with the team in preseason practice is the same as any practice Nylander could have been doing on his own. 2 months Parise was out and came back with almost no practice/conditioning time, anything he gained from any offseason work was lost over that time of doing nothing. These guys are 10+ years older than Nylander too. Do you think Nylander was just sitting on the couch drinking beer and eating chicken wings and chips since the season ended last year?

    It's been almost 2 months and Nylander isn't lookling like he's coming out of his funk. That is enough time to get in game shape. He gets to play with 1 of 3 30g centers, it's not like he's stuck on a line with Foligno and JEE playing a Yeo trap game. The assists should at least be happening.


    I'm not going to assume that doing an offseason training routine on your own is the same as a team workout. I'm not a professional athlete and I don't know the rigors that go into training as one. You are once again wrong about Parise, he worked out with the team for about a month before his return from injury (look at the source I provided in my previous post). So to say he had no practice or conditioning is extremely wrong. These athletes do a ton of training and conditioning when returning from injury, so I'm not going to assume that "anything he gained from any offseason work was lost over that time of doing nothing" because he didn't do nothing. Russo wrote a whole story about how Suter trained at UW Madison when he was recovering from his injury, which further proves my point. Now it's not like Nylander was doing nothing this offseason, but that time with the team, preseason games, and early season games are important in shaking the rust off. As I've been saying consistently: Nylander had to shake the rust off while everyone else is playing at their highest ability, which makes it harder to catch up.

    Nylander now has 4 points in his past 2 games, so I'd say he is starting to "come out of his funk" to use your words. He's also been tossed around Toronto's top 9 almost the entire season so I imagine it's been hard to build any real chemistry. Players have been quoted countless times saying it helps a lot to have a position consistently versus being thrown around all the time. Older guys can handle that better with their experience but Nylander is still very young.
    24 janv. 2019 à 20 h 23
    #42
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    Quoting: arousedcat
    I'm not going to assume that doing an offseason training routine on your own is the same as a team workout. I'm not a professional athlete and I don't know the rigors that go into training as one. You are once again wrong about Parise, he worked out with the team for about a month before his return from injury (look at the source I provided in my previous post). So to say he had no practice or conditioning is extremely wrong. These athletes do a ton of training and conditioning when returning from injury, so I'm not going to assume that "anything he gained from any offseason work was lost over that time of doing nothing" because he didn't do nothing. Russo wrote a whole story about how Suter trained at UW Madison when he was recovering from his injury, which further proves my point. Now it's not like Nylander was doing nothing this offseason, but that time with the team, preseason games, and early season games are important in shaking the rust off. As I've been saying consistently: Nylander had to shake the rust off while everyone else is playing at their highest ability, which makes it harder to catch up.

    Nylander now has 4 points in his past 2 games, so I'd say he is starting to "come out of his funk" to use your words. He's also been tossed around Toronto's top 9 almost the entire season so I imagine it's been hard to build any real chemistry. Players have been quoted countless times saying it helps a lot to have a position consistently versus being thrown around all the time. Older guys can handle that better with their experience but Nylander is still very young.


    So using this argument you're okay with Rask and his 7p on the season so far for Nino?
    24 janv. 2019 à 22 h 44
    #43
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    Quoting: wabit
    So using this argument you're okay with Rask and his 7p on the season so far for Nino?


    Rask has been better than Nino was while he was with us this year. I don't particularly like Rask since he's very slow, but Rask has had a lot of good plays in the offsenive zone and is creating chances even though he only has 1 assist since we've traded for him. Nino was pretty much being wasted in the bottom 6, and even in his opportunities in the top 6 he wasn't producing consistently.
     
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