SalarySwishSalarySwish

My take on PLAYERS IN PROPER ROLES AT PROPER PRICES

Créé par: MelonVK
Équipe: 2020-21 Équipe personnalisée
Date de création initiale: 21 oct. 2020
Publié: 21 oct. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Légende
Gaucher
Équipe initiale
Exempté du ballottage
Droitier
Position
Clause d'échange
Max. Bonis de perf.
Statut à l’échéance du contrat
Terme restant
Logo de Oilers d'Edmonton
Exempté du ballottageMcDavid, Connor
12 500 000 $ (Bonis de performance250 000 $)
C
NMC
UFA - 5
Description
Until recently we've had a pretty clear concept of the best players playing C. Recently we see guys like Lafrenière go #1, Marchand and Panarin drive play from the wing etc. and those lines are blurred. The old idea is still reflected in contracts though, and centermen are usually paid slightly more. I followed that to try to find a roughly #15C and pay him like the roughly #15 highest paid C. I did the same thing for the wings, and on defense I tried more of a 1-2-3 etc. approach - although those lines are blurred more around #3-4 and #5-6 D-men.

I also think the idea of #1 and #2 goalies is kind of dying, and splitting starts 50-30 is becoming more common than the old 65-15 split, but it's hard to find matching contracts for goalies regardless, cause they're so prone to variation anyways.
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2081 500 000 $80 654 032 $0 $0 $845 968 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Golden Knights de Vegas
7 000 000 $7 000 000 $
AG
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de Lightning de Tampa Bay
8 500 000 $8 500 000 $
AG, C
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
6 962 366 $6 962 366 $
AD
UFA - 4
Logo de Blues de St-Louis
5 350 000 $5 350 000 $
AG
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Golden Knights de Vegas
5 900 000 $5 900 000 $
C
M-NTC
UFA - 7
Logo de Islanders de New York
5 500 000 $5 500 000 $
AD
NTC
UFA - 4
Logo de Red Wings de Detroit
2 950 000 $2 950 000 $
AG
UFA - 2
Logo de Blues de St-Louis
2 750 000 $2 750 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 3
Logo de Panthers de la Floride
2 533 333 $2 533 333 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Blues de St-Louis
1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
AG
UFA - 2
Logo de Bruins de Boston
1 350 000 $1 350 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 3
Logo de Oilers d'Edmonton
1 200 000 $1 200 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Canucks de Vancouver
5 950 000 $5 950 000 $
DG/DD
M-NTC
UFA - 5
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
7 575 000 $7 575 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo de Golden Knights de Vegas
4 000 000 $4 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
Logo de Jets de Winnipeg
3 000 000 $3 000 000 $
DD
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo de Golden Knights de Vegas
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
G
M-NTC
UFA - 5
Logo de Blue Jackets de Columbus
1 633 333 $1 633 333 $
DG
UFA - 2
Logo de Bruins de Boston
1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
DD
UFA - 3
Logo de Jets de Winnipeg
1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
G
UFA - 1

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Commentaires populaires

21 oct. 2020 à 17 h 41
#1
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: févr. 2019
Messages: 2,495
Mentions "j'aime": 1,047
Hey took my idea very cool! Fun.

My Issues with your team:

1) That top line is a terrible choice IMO
A.Stamkos is not even close to the best option at 1C you could have went with, but if you like him, then fair enough.
B.Nylander is not a first line player IMO.
C.Also could have done a lot better on the left side, Pacioretty is not a great 1st liner, nor is he worth 7 mil IMO

2.Spurgeon is a wildly overpaid 2nd pairing D IMO
3. Schmidt is hardly a top pairing D

Thanks for your take on my fun game tho smile
21 oct. 2020 à 17 h 48
#2
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Rejoint: juill. 2017
Messages: 3,268
Mentions "j'aime": 977
Quoting: dzad96
Hey took my idea very cool! Fun.

My Issues with your team:

1) That top line is a terrible choice IMO
A.Stamkos is not even close to the best option at 1C you could have went with, but if you like him, then fair enough.
B.Nylander is not a first line player IMO.
C.Also could have done a lot better on the left side, Pacioretty is not a great 1st liner, nor is he worth 7 mil IMO

2.Spurgeon is a wildly overpaid 2nd pairing D IMO
3. Schmidt is hardly a top pairing D

Thanks for your take on my fun game tho smile


Oh man...
If I think really hard, maybe ROR is a better choice at 1C - and I think roughly 8m pays for an average 1C.
So... Either you split right and left wingers - and in that case I'd love to see you mention 15-20 wingers on each side comfortably better than Pacioretty and Nylander. Patches still has amazing underlying numbers and is both solid possession-wise and as a goal scorer. Nylander is a play driver and if anything I think he's slightly too good on this contract.

Spurgeon is almost *exactly* the 15th best D in the league, no? If not I want to know which 15-20 guys that are better than him, and remember, again, the player should probably be paid 7-8m to be a #1D.
I used Schmidt as a roughly #45D in the league, and getting paid as that. You don't have to agree with any of my picks, but it echoes kind of empty when the argument goes "I don't think so". I'd love to have a discussion, and maybe you don't care enough to put in the effort, and that's fine. But I'm not about to change my mind based on "IMO, IMO" without premises!
21 oct. 2020 à 17 h 58
#3
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 11,216
Mentions "j'aime": 5,213
Quoting: dzad96
Hey took my idea very cool! Fun.

My Issues with your team:

1) That top line is a terrible choice IMO
A.Stamkos is not even close to the best option at 1C you could have went with, but if you like him, then fair enough.
B.Nylander is not a first line player IMO.
C.Also could have done a lot better on the left side, Pacioretty is not a great 1st liner, nor is he worth 7 mil IMO

2.Spurgeon is a wildly overpaid 2nd pairing D IMO
3. Schmidt is hardly a top pairing D

Thanks for your take on my fun game tho smile


for point B...if being on pace for 37 goals and 71 points pre-corona doesn't make you a first line player, I don't really know what does
21 oct. 2020 à 17 h 59
#4
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Rejoint: févr. 2019
Messages: 2,495
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Quoting: MelonVK
Oh man...
If I think really hard, maybe ROR is a better choice at 1C - and I think roughly 8m pays for an average 1C.
So... Either you split right and left wingers - and in that case I'd love to see you mention 15-20 wingers on each side comfortably better than Pacioretty and Nylander. Patches still has amazing underlying numbers and is both solid possession-wise and as a goal scorer. Nylander is a play driver and if anything I think he's slightly too good on this contract.

Spurgeon is almost *exactly* the 15th best D in the league, no? If not I want to know which 15-20 guys that are better than him, and remember, again, the player should probably be paid 7-8m to be a #1D.
I used Schmidt as a roughly #45D in the league, and getting paid as that. You don't have to agree with any of my picks, but it echoes kind of empty when the argument goes "I don't think so". I'd love to have a discussion, and maybe you don't care enough to put in the effort, and that's fine. But I'm not about to change my mind based on "IMO, IMO" without premises!


Valid points. All of it.

I'm not going to split wingers into left and right, just going to name the wingers who are on fair deals 6-10 and are better than those two in one list.

Ovechkin, Gaudreau, Hall, Rantaanen, Giroux, Connor, Forsberg, Kucherov, Stone, Wheeler, tarasenko, Kessel. Theres 12 who are easily better than pacioretty and Nylander, again it's my opinion because that's all I can really go off of, but if you want statistical information every player in my list has had a higher single season point total than Nylander or Pacioretty have ever had.

Spurgeon 15th best D in the league objectively? Not even close. 15th in the league based on 7-10 mil cap hit, maybe. here's players making 7-10 who are better than Spurgeon, again sorry to disappoint but gonna have to have an opinion.
Josi, Carlson, Pietrangelo, Burns, Chabot, Weber, Letang (when healthy). So not many guys in that 7-10 salary range better than Spurgeon. But I think he's overpaid. Only worth about 5-6 IMO which then allows me to place a whole slew of other Dmen ahead of him. Love Spurgeon at a 6 cap hit, not at 7+ hes a solid 2nd D IMO.

Sorry for all the opinion but that's what a discussion is. Interested to hear why you think Spurgeon is so good.
21 oct. 2020 à 18 h 24
#5
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Rejoint: juill. 2017
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Quoting: dzad96
Valid points. All of it.

I'm not going to split wingers into left and right, just going to name the wingers who are on fair deals 6-10 and are better than those two in one list.

Ovechkin, Gaudreau, Hall, Rantaanen, Giroux, Connor, Forsberg, Kucherov, Stone, Wheeler, tarasenko, Kessel. Theres 12 who are easily better than pacioretty and Nylander, again it's my opinion because that's all I can really go off of, but if you want statistical information every player in my list has had a higher single season point total than Nylander or Pacioretty have ever had.

Spurgeon 15th best D in the league objectively? Not even close. 15th in the league based on 7-10 mil cap hit, maybe. here's players making 7-10 who are better than Spurgeon, again sorry to disappoint but gonna have to have an opinion.
Josi, Carlson, Pietrangelo, Burns, Chabot, Weber, Letang (when healthy). So not many guys in that 7-10 salary range better than Spurgeon. But I think he's overpaid. Only worth about 5-6 IMO which then allows me to place a whole slew of other Dmen ahead of him. Love Spurgeon at a 6 cap hit, not at 7+ hes a solid 2nd D IMO.

Sorry for all the opinion but that's what a discussion is. Interested to hear why you think Spurgeon is so good.


So I don't know if you fully follow my reasoning - I think most players on your list are better than the ones I inserted into my lineup, but my idea is to either get two wingers at roughly #30 for wingers in the league, paid at that price. Either that, or get roughly the #15 wingers for each side.

Yeah I'm kind of big on numbers slightly beyond point totals. I think point totals sometimes are way too generous or cheap in terms of assigning player value. Phil Kessel racks up loads of point but gets massively outscored on the ice. Forsberg doesn't produce as much, but is driving both his own line and most of his team's offence, while also playing really solid defence. I have Forsberg as a top10 winger, I don't have Kessel in my top 20 or 30. It's just so weird to me how people can knock Nylander down any list for "not playing defense" when in reality his numbers show way better D- and neutral zone play than a lot of the guys on these lists. Also - guys like Rantanen playing with maybe the best player in the league and doing a lot of 'empty calory' scoring, or Connor - picking up a lot of the points from Wheeler's or Scheifele's creation are knocked down a bit for me. Nylander, as examplified, did play with Matthews, but also transported way more pucks and created way more opportunities for Matthews than Raantanen did by tapping in open netter off of MacKinnon rushes (simplified ofc). I think a lot of the time people intuitively judge player performance, and then try to justify it with numbers. I try not to do that.

When Spurgeon is on the ice his team outperformes the opposition a crazy amount in terms of shot generation etc. I think he's actually top 10 by most models. But regardless, when you start actually counting it's my experience you run out quicker than you think. Hedman, Ellis, Karlsson, Hughes, Makar, Fox, Pietrangelo, Giordano, Josi, Hamilton, McAvoy, and maybe Letang are the guys I'd feel good with placing above him - but when we're in the Burns, Carlson, Jones, Werenski, Chabot, Krug, Morrissey, Rielly, Slavin, Lindholm, Weber etc range I think he kind of slots in there. The 15th highest paid defenseman is Ekblad, and I'd have him as a candidate here too - and he's making 75k less.

In the end, we don't have to agree, but I enjoy presenting justifications for my thinking to have more discussions and potentially improve my mindset in regards to these things!
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